Hooray for Homeland - Carrie’s back blasting America’s enemies to pieces with drones

Plus: James Walton senses BBC2’s Gunpowder 5/11: The Greatest Terror Plot is trying to tell us something

25 October 2014

9:00 AM

25 October 2014

9:00 AM

One of the more welcome and surprising things about television at the moment is that Homeland (Channel 4, Sunday) is good again. As I’m not the only person to have pointed out, the first series was great. After that, though, the show suffered badly from the diminishing returns which so often afflict a deserved American hit that’s obliged for financial reasons to just keep on going — usually by serving up increasingly minor variations on a theme. (Exhibit A: Lost; exhibit B: most of mid-period 24.)

Fortunately now that Damian Lewis’s Brody is dead, Homeland no longer has to think up any more ways to make us wonder which side he’s on. Instead, to the obvious relief of all concerned, it can start again with a different story. It can also let Carrie (Claire Danes) take centre-stage unaccompanied.

In last week’s opening episode, we learned that Carrie hadn’t allowed the little matter of bipolar disorder stand in the way of a successful new career in Kabul blasting America’s enemies to pieces with drones. If anything, she seems tougher and more driven than ever — despite a tendency to slurp the sort of large glasses of wine that in Britain might suggest merely a quiet night in front of the telly, but that here are presumably meant to signify something darker.

Episode 403

Then, however, Carrie ordered an attack on what turned out to be a family wedding. As a result, she was recalled to Washington by the slippery and careerist head of the CIA, Andrew Lockhart (Tracy Letts) — a man who’s apparently been skipping his diversity training. (Pakistan, he told her on Sunday, ‘is not even a real country. It’s a fucking acronym.’)

For some women, such a return home might have represented a long-awaited chance to catch up with their baby daughter — in this case, the one fathered by Brody, and with the red hair to prove it. Carrie, though, is not one of nature’s mothers. To her credit, she did try for a day or two, changing little Franny’s nappy, resisting the urge to drown her in the bath and at one stage whispering a few maternal confidences into her ear. (‘I can’t remember why I had you.’) She was also scrupulous about taking her daughter with her when she tracked down a former CIA field officer to grill him about what might have gone wrong with the intelligence that led to the wedding-party bombing. (Perhaps unexpectedly, the officer in question is played by Adam Godley, who made his name with his performance as Kenneth Williams in Cleo, Camping, Emmanuelle and Dick at the National Theatre.)

Even so, it was with a transparent sense of a burden shed that Carrie briskly blackmailed Lockhart into making her the CIA’s new head in Islamabad, a posting where no children are permitted. In a particularly strong scene towards the end, she went into Franny’s bedroom to say goodbye. From her cot, the baby put on an impressive, if slightly overdone display of cuteness, reaching out her arms and bombarding her mother with smiles and gurgles of affection. ‘I’m so sorry,’ whispered Carrie before leaving with neither a kiss nor a backward glance.

And still with terrorism: on Wednesday BBC2 brought us Gunpowder 5/11: The Greatest Terror Plot. As the title suggests, this was not a piece of television afraid to draw — or, indeed, force — any modern parallels it could, in an anxious and sometimes embarrassing attempt to show us that… no, honestly… history can be relevant and exciting. In the introduction, the narrator used the phrase ‘5/11’ as often and as significantly as possible. (Although, at the risk of being pedantic, wouldn’t the true parallel have been ‘11/5’?) And, just in case we didn’t get the point, the gunpowder plotters, we were told, wanted ‘to do something on a grander scale than had ever been seen before’.

Gunpowder 5/11: The Greatest Terror Plot, BBC

Happily, having convinced itself of all that relevance, the programme then settled down for a while, and seemed content to be a fairly standard historical drama documentary. The academic talking heads put forward some interesting arguments; the basic story was clearly told; the drama bits did the best they could on a budget that, from what we saw, ran mainly to costumes and metal goblets for the conspirators to stand around drinking from.

Only with minutes to go, in fact, did the makers suddenly remember that a 17th-century plan to blow up the English parliament was just like what happened in New York 13 years ago. ‘This tale of faith and fanaticism,’ concluded the narrator rather desperately, ‘resonates in a new century darkened by terror perpetrated in the name of God. There are lessons still to be learnt’ — although what those lessons might be, he sadly didn’t say.

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  • ItinerantView

    ‘resonates in a new century darkened by terror perpetrated in the name of God. There are lessons still to be learnt’
    If plotters want to leave the country to fight for Islamo-fascist groups, let them but don’t let them back in.Confiscating passports of those who want the black flag flying over Westminster, refused exit- motivated,angry young men and women, I wonder on what or who they will turn that energy on now ?
    Or capture those plotting sedition and violence, spreading hatred and promoting totalitarian ideologies, execution then impale their heads on spikes in a public place ?.
    Too severe for this day and age I would think, better to throw money at the problem,open youth centres and allow a parallel judicial system to take root.Their ‘communities’ could then deal with them or the even fast-track some into the Civil Service and encourage political involvement.Tower Hamlets another bastion of ‘progress’ and multiculturalism
    Draft OIC inspired laws that limits criticism of their ideology and its scriptural context, because they are discriminated and marginalised by the intolerant British.
    Allow some of the biggest sponsors of extreme Islam to teach “students of all ages” through an “extensive outreach programme” of the tolerant,peaceful ideology they practice.Just like those beacons of enlightenment like Qatar,Saudi Arabia and Kuwait.
    Especially when it’s only a tiny minority they would have to ‘de-radicalize’.

    • thomasaikenhead


      “If plotters want to leave the country to fight for Islamo-fascist groups, let them but don’t let them back in.”

      Would you apply the same sanction against those who go to fight for the IDF and kill hundreds of innocent PAlestinian children?

      • Mike

        Many more Muslims have died at the hands of other Muslims than by Jewish / Christian hands !

        • Treebrain


          I do not doubt what you say but it is beside the point.

          The issue is whether British subjects should be allowed overseas to kill people and then not be held responsible for their actions and allowed to return the the UK.

          • Mike

            Historically the UK and most other western countries made no real differentiation or judgement between their citizens who went to fight for either side during the Spanish civil war in the 1930´s. Why should it be much different now over UK Jihadists that decide to go and fight in Iraq or Syria.

            That said, the only real difference is that those who felt compelled to back Franco or the opposing force didn’t bring their twisted ideology back home to their country of birth or citizenship compared to those of the Islamic faith who have brought religion into the equation.

            Unfortunately, Islam preaches hate in a way that legitimizes to its advocates all manner of obscene atrocities such as beheading, gang rape, stoning etc, etc!

            However, times have changed since the 1930’s and I agree in todays world, you´re either for us or against us. As such, these Jihadists should be held accountable and be denied re-entry to the UK even if they have a UK passport. You pick the side you want to support and if thats the devil, so be it !

          • Treebrain

            “Unfortunately, Islam preaches hate in a way that legitimizes to its advocates all manner of obscene atrocities such as beheading, gang rape, stoning etc, etc!”

            Unfortunately even the most cursory examination of the history of war will show that those acts have been committed by atheists and people of all religions in the past.

            As for your black and white view of the world, I think that you will find that the real world is rather more complicated than that.

          • Mike

            Unfortunately for pea brains on the left, most of us accept as a given that all manner of barbaric acts have been committed by most if not all faiths & cultures at some time in the past but that’s not the issue unless you´re trying to pretend we still live in the 16th century. Its a fallacious and worn out argument to try and justify todays Islamic terrorism & barbarity in the 21st century by comparing it to a similar period 400 years ago when most religions including Islam was at war somewhere or other.

            The truth is fairly black and white in that Islam still preaches and lives in the 5th century AD whilst all other religions are not inspiring or promoting beheading, gang rape, stoning, execution for adultery all of which are dependent on which nuance of Islam they cherry pick to enact.

            Please enlighten all of us, what is ‘grey’ about a religion that has tens of thousands of them killing each other, or recruiting mentally sub-normal individuals to go around killing shoppers and innocent people. Seems pretty black and white to me and most in the world that its a religion of evil !

          • Treebrain


            “Its a fallacious and worn out argument to try and justify todays Islamic terrorism & barbarity in the 21st century by comparing it to a similar period 400 years ago when most religions including Islam was at war somewhere or other.”

            Well fortunately for me it is not an argument that I have ever tried to make.

            Your ignorance of world history is truly astonishing.

            Muslim states and Muslims empires have existed for centuries and have included some of the most tolerant, advanced and sophisticated societies in the world.

            If you really had any interest in people killing each other today you would have mentioned the place where most people have died in the last decade and that does not include Muslims at all.

            As for Muslims, it was, once again, actually Muslim countries that have been invaded and brutalised in recent years including Afghanistan who had the misfortune to have both sides from the Cold war attack them at different times, Pakistanis are being slaughtered at will by the US using drones, it was the Western invasion of Iraq that turned it into a failed state, just as Libya was and the problems in Syria stem from the contagion that infected the society from Iraq after the West ‘improved’ the country by destroying the Saddam Hussein regime.

            Oh yes, as you like to include religious groups you might wants to looks at how many neighbouring Arab and Muslim countries have been attacked and invaded by Israel since 1948?

          • Mike

            “even the most cursory examination of the history of war will show that those acts have been committed by atheists and people of all religions in the past”

            Your post I believe but irrelevant in todays setting in the 21st century as Christianity & Judaism are not promoting Jihadists as Islam is.

            Non believers under Islamic rule had three stark choices, convert to Islam, pay a tax (Blackmail) or be killed as defined by the Qu´ran and carried out by its followers. I´d hardly call that tolerance and its still happening today against the Yazedis in Iraq..

            As for wars during the past decade, here´s the list of the most prominent ones.

            1/ War in Darfur between Islamic driven government forces against non Islamic groups. The west, Not Guilty, not involved.

            2/ Iraq war to remove a genocidal dictator but not instigated because of religious beliefs. The west, Guilty of folly in trying to bring democracy to an Arab state. Exit Iraq and now the real genocide begins from Islamic Jihadists against everyone.

            3/ Lebanon War (2003-2006) Israel fought back against Islamic militants attacking its borders. Its also interesting to note that 50 years ago Lebanon was the peaceful jewell in the middle east for multiculturalism. that is until the proportion of Muslims in that country exceeded the other religions and harsh Islamic rule was imposed along with the convert, pay or be killed program of ethnic cleansing.

            4/ Gaza wars at various times due to Hamas firing rockets indiscriminately into Israel with the stated intent to exterminate all Jews.

            5/ Afghanistan, the west against terrorism and drug cartels, the juries out but it was probably another folly by the west in trying to bring people into the 21st century from their barbaric customs.

            6/ Syria, thousands of Muslims being killed by other Muslims and genocide carried out by the Jihadists.

            7/ Iraq, same problem, thousands being killed on both sides.

            8/ Libya, same problem, internecine war between different Islamic factions.

            Contrary to your false claims, I take history very seriously as it clearly shows where we in the west have made errors of judgment but far more relevant is the continuing killing in Islamic countries that is spilling out into the west.

            In summary, Israel fights back against aggressors, Pakistan executes women who don´t believe in Islam, Afghanistan exported terrorism and drugs, most of the middle east countries are in a state of civil war and whether 400 AD or the 21st century, Islam is at the heart of all this killing.

          • Treebrain


            For someone who claims;

            “Contrary to your false claims, I take history very seriously…”

            your response to my comment is astonishing even though I provided a great big clue for you!

            You totally fail to mention the region of greatest conflict where most lives have been lost!

            For your information, it is the Democratic Republic of Congo, formerly known as Zaire. The International Rescue Committee, headed by former UK Foreign Secretary David Miliband estimated that 5.4 million people have died there in the last decade or so.

            For someone who claims to take history seriously but absolutely failed to mention it when discussing recent conflicts, your ignorance is shameful!

          • Mike

            Tribal warfare and nothing to do with Islam, totally self contained in Africa, not a threat to the west and NOTHING to do with the subject under discussion as distasteful as it may be.

            All this shows is that ignorant uneducated groups have a common purpose to kill each other but unlike religious inspired genocide which is a threat to the west, this one is more cultural genocide.

            You’re the one in denial over recent history the very subject you brought up where Islam is the main proponent of genocide today. If you can’t even recognize history in the making there’s no chance you’ll accept earlier history pertaining to Islam. Quite obviously you’ve been brain washed by the left and had historical facts removed from your brain and substituted with Islamic propaganda.

          • Treebrain


            Oh come on, you have been publicly caught out condemning yourself with your own words!

            “Contrary to your false claims, I take history very seriously…”

            My claim was not false and clearly the fact that more than five million people were killed seems to have escaped your notice which shows precisely how seriously you take history!

            You made a statement that more Muslims have been killed by other Muslims than by Jewish/Christian hands and I agreed with you, but pointed out your straw man argument was beside the point.

            You were then caught out again so you responded with childish abuse about ‘pea brains’ and claimed that I held left-wing political views, whereas as we have never even met you have no idea whatsoever about my political views rather than wildly guessing based on a few random comments made on the internet.

            As for your bizarre claim;

            “Seems pretty black and white to me and most in the world that its a religion of evil !”

            got any credible information to support your claim that most people in the world think it is a religion of evil?

            Given that the quarter of the world population are Muslims, they don’t think that they follow a religion of evil, the vast majority of Christians do not and neither do the Hindus who have lived with and been ruled by Muslim leaders for centuries.

            It appears that maths can join history in not being your best subjects?

          • Mike

            Its no good you straying off subject to try and substantiate your views on Islam by linking it to the Congo as the subject of the article and my post was about terrorism in the west and not about some tribal conflict in central Africa no matter how many were killed. If you want to discuss the Congo as a separate subject, I might well agree with your views but conflating 5 million killed in the Congo as having any relevance to this article is pure BS and you know it.

            The standard response from those like yourself is to refuse debate on the facts pertaining to todays genocide or terrorism and always to drag up ancient history, lame excuses, conflation of dissociative world events up rather than debate the plain facts put in front of you. In this, you’re guilty as charged as the many examples and factual points I´ve made that don´t fit your twisted view of the world, you refuse to debate on.

            As for religions of evil, all I can say is that countries like Pakistan who execute female atheists show that 80% of their country support these sort of Islamic penalties. That’s a very large percentage of Muslims that support death for non believers and if extrapolated to the 25% of Muslims globally, that’s over 1.2 billion Muslims world wide wanting to kill the rest of us. Luckily for us, not all Islamic countries are as high as Pakistans 80% figure and statistically only around 25% demand full blown Sharia law across the world in Islamic and non Islamic states. Still scary though considering thats 400 million Muslims demanding death to disbelievers.

            Now you´ll either ignore those inconvenient facts as they are easily substantiated or you’ll make some ridiculous claim to the contrary. I’ll wait with bated breath to see what feeble conflation you may decide to come back with.

          • Treebrain

            Oh dear Mike,

            You really are getting desperate aren’y you?

            Having been caught out you resort to puerile insults based on my avatar name (Here is a hint, – Not original or did you really think that you were the first? Did you REALLY consider yourself amusing?) and then juvenile claims about me being left-wing based on nothing but your own dislikes and fantasies.

            You claim to have historical knowledge but missed that fact that over five million people had been killed in the Congo.

            You make reference to ancient history but the example you were provided with took place during the last decade or so.

            You were refuted with your claim that ‘most in the world’ think Islam is an evil religion on simple arithmetic and this is

            just the start of even a cursory examination of your comments and claims.

            “You’re the one in denial over recent history the very subject you brought up where Islam is the main proponent of genocide today.”

            Do you even understand what genocide actually means?

            Quite simply, no Islam does not promote genocide. Yes, certain Muslim groups are involved in conflict but you have contradicted yourself once more in your own comment above where you claimed that most Muslims have been killed by other Muslims.

            Yes, certain Muslim irregular groups do practice perception on others but, as you have pointed out, the greatest amount of current violence is Muslim versus Muslim, more specifically Sunni vs Shia.

            Once again you have managed to contradict yourself, congratulations for making it a hattrick in a single thread!

          • Mike

            Au contraire, you’re the desperate one refusing to rebuff my facts and instead going off on tangents to try and justify yourself.

            Quite simply, Genocide is the deliberate and systematic extermination of a national, racial, political, or cultural group.and that is exactly what the Islamic inspired Jihadists are doing in Iraq.

            As for your line “certain Muslim irregular groups do practice perception on others”, surely you mean persecution or is your muddled thinking even worse than I think it is.

          • Mike

            Ah but it is exactly the point, how can a religion of peace condone, inspire and actually promote such genocide and terrorism against its own believers !

      • ItinerantView

        How many of the few who go to Israel, if they even return to the UK, plan terrorist atrocities and require the attention of the security services ?

      • will91

        There is of course a subtle difference.

        We have cause to believe that Jews who go to fight with the armed forces of a democratic state, at this current point, don’t seem to pose the same domestic security risk to British citizens as Muslims who go to fight with the band of head hacking savages known as IS.

        • Treebrain


          Are you completely unaware of the bungled Israeli mission in Dubai in 2010 when Mahmoud Al-Mabouh was murdered. The Keystone Kops operation saw every member of the team identified and photographed before they fled the country.

          Subsequent investigations that the Israeli had used forged identity papers relating to the nationals of states considered to be of the UK including the UK. Despite his cover being totally blown one the operatives tried to use the documents in Poland and was smuggled back via Germany when he was discovered.

          These actions followed cast-iron guarantees made to the Thatcher government when Israel was previously caught using British documents, an activity that was revealed when an Israeli ‘intelligence agent’ left the compromising documents in a phone box in London!

          Who knows what else Israel has been doing in the meantime to endanger British subjects and the national interest?

      • Grace Ironwood

        Thomas, there is no equivalence between those who fight for Israel, and those who murder for terrorists.
        The difference between the gratuitous actions of those who behead small children for IS on the one hand and those who have accidentally caused the deaths of children used by Hamas as human shields is not a subtle one.
        As many other commentators point out – Jews pose no domestic threat to this country. Savages bent on Jihad do..

        • Treebrain

          Grace Ironwood,

          I am against killing children and innocent civilians for any cause.

          The Palestinians children killed by the IDF were murdered, and all to please domestic Israeli political interests and nothing to do with security at all.

          That is the real tragedy, that people believe Operation Cast Lead, Operation Pillar and Operation Protective Edge have actually done anything to improve the security and safety of Israel or Israelis.

          In fact it appears to have done the very opposite as incursions into Gaza have not stopped the rockets but only put IDF personnel in harms way hence tens killed and hundreds injured in the last operation alone.

          Further damage has been done to the international image of Israel and the IDf, powerful factors in the recent votes in Sweden and the UK to simply ignore Israeli protests and recognise Palestine.

          The recent refusal of top US officials to even meet with Ya’alon illustrates perfectly that even the US is finally losing patience with Israel.

          Israel has a hard lesson to learn, that actions have consequences!

          • will91

            Sweden’s stance towards Israel has less to do with how the Swedish government feels about Israels right to defend itself and much more to do with appeasing a Muslim minority that as we have seen in Malmo, seems to have somewhat of a penchant for rioting and burning cars 🙂

          • Treebrain

            Sweden has always questioned the methods used by Israel to ‘defend’ itself ever since right-wing Jewish terrorists murdered the unarmed UN Ambassador Count Folke Bernadotte and his staff in 1948.

            There is a long tradition of Jewish, right-wing terrorists killing unarmed civilians who are trying to bring peace that started with Jacob Israel de Haan, includes Bernadotte and more recently Yitzhak Rabin, amongst many others.

          • Grace Ironwood

            “Murdered” is just as much of a nonsense term in this context as “genocide”

            Obama is an utterly conventional Jew-hating Cultural Marxist. The American people have the same opinions as ever.

          • Treebrain


            Well clearly some people like him because he has been awarded the Nobel Peace Prize and twice been elected President of the United States!

          • will91

            If you fail to recognise that Israel attempts to minimise civilian casualties whilst Hamas seeks to maximise them,(please refer yourself to a video where an Hamas spokesperson encourages Palestinians to ignore Israeli warnings to leave their homes prior to airstrikes)

            Having considered this fact, if you are still against Israel’s right to defend itself, then it has to be said you are also against Israel’s right to exist. And I for one would prefer it if you just came out and said it…

            You don’t want Israel to exist.

          • Treebrain


            I believe that Israel has every right to exist and to take all reasonable steps to defend itself and its citizens.

            The point I am making is that happen to believe that in recent years Israel has adopted the wrong policies and I am certainly not alone in thinking that.

            The IDF has changed from being a regular military force into an army of occupation in a war running war that they are losing.

            The IDF has been used by Israeli politicians not to defend the country but to achieve political goals of discredited politicians acting for their own endows, not in the national interest of Israels.

            The IDF is slowly but surely committing “Spartan suicide”;

            -They are fighting too often so that their enemies are learning their tactics and strategies and how to combat them.

            – They are using ‘disproportionate force’ and so killing too many innocent civilian women and children thus creating more enemies and isolating Israel diplomatically and politically.

            – They are being lured into operations where they are taking too many casualties. Israel simply cannot afford to lose nearly seventy troops and have hundreds wounded in Operation Protective Edge in a reaction to six deaths from rocket fire.

            – They are spending too much time on police-like activity and so losing their military edge, hence the increasing number of deaths by friendly fire and avoidable deaths such as stationing troops in a static position with mortar range of Hamas.

            – Military effectiveness is being undermined by confusion about strategies not related to combat such as the Dahiya Doctrine.

            – The Hannibal Directive is creating unrest on confusion as IDF forces are required to fire on themselves.

            These are just a few of the issues that will continue to take their toll on the IDF just as similar forces eventually bought about the demise of Sparta.

            I have no desire to see that happen but the outlook for Israel is bleak unless fundamental changes take place.

    • GraveDave

      It sounds harsh but we ought to depart the whole of the immediate family.
      There would be a lot of hulla-balloo but it wouldn’t take long for the problem to right itself . Likewise at the beginning of the great mass immigration programme we should only have granted British citizenship and passports once said immigrants had been here a number of years ~(say five) working and contributing and not committing any (serious) crime. Again it sounds harsh but in those days we were arresting and locking our own people up for all sorts of minor crimes.

  • MikeF

    It is fairly obvious why the BBC with its unrestrained Islamophilia should want to draw parallels between modern day Islamist terrorism and the Gunpowder Plot – relativise the former, make it seem part of a tradition, get across the message ‘Christians can be just as bad’. The differences, however, are stark – Catholics in early 17th century England were a persecuted minority for no other reason than their faith, Muslims aren’t persecuted in any such way (well except in some countries by other Muslims if they are of the wrong type of Islam). Anyone could guess that is how the BBC would play it – ‘political corrrectness’ by deifnition is all too predictable.

    • Guest

      Muslims are the ones doing the persecuting

    • GraveDave

      On TV they’ve been doing it for years. It’s called moral equivalency – or something. Below, I borrowed this from a ‘certain’ website.
      But is it not true enough.

      BBC Bonekickers:

      Britain’s first black, archaeologist detective (show)

      Episode 1: Blonde-haired,blue-eyed, Christian terrorists declare a Crusade innocent brown Muslims. Including one scene where the evil white Christian decapitates an innocent Muslim.

      Episode 2: They discover some relic of horrific white-on-black slavery in Bristol, and we get an hour of White Guilt about slavery, on top of a Black Presidential candidate being racially abused by an evil white racist. It also turns out that Black soldiers played a pivotal role in the Revolutionary War in America, but it had been covered up because of evil white racists.

      Episode 3: They discover that Boudicca, the Ancient British Queen who famously fought back against the Roman immigration to Britain 2,000 years ago, was actually secretly having an affair with one of the Roman immigrants.

      Episode 4: The white female archaeologists tells us that Northern European archaeology is pathetic and boring compared to wonderful Egyptian and Middle Eastern archaeology. We never built anything good and were just savages eating dung.There’s also White guilt about looting Middle Eastern artifacts.

      Episode 5: Something that undermines Britain’s sense of pride about World War I, they uncover some dead bodies which were on some secret mission to kill some German civilians or something, and the British army tries to cover it up.

      Looks like Britain had an evil past and, as punishment will have a brown future, courtesy of the BBC.


  • Greyfox

    The idea that 5/11 was the Greatest Terror Plot is itself a joke. What is happening now is a thousand times worse and threatens all Kuffar. Incidentally I find that term far more insulting and offensive than the dreaded N word.

  • Winter Jasmine

    Oh come on the New York atrocities were incomparable.

    On a much lighter note Cromwell is now considered one of our
    greatest Englishmen.Much prefer him to the powdered, puffed
    and insipid King Charles. But yes they knew how to deal with traitors in that time.

    Maybe one day the wretched BBC will stop being a apologist for
    savagery and stop belittling our history, but I shan’t hold my breath.

  • Jackthesmilingblack

    There is a theory that the 5/11 conspirators were set up. The plot discovered and infiltrated at an early stage, and the plotters’ plans facilitated at every turn. Cellars under the Houses of Parliament suddenly become available… What are the odds! Then with all the predictability of a “made for TV drama”, at literally the last minute Guido Fawkes is taken down with a lighted match in his hand. Motivation? That’s easy: To turn the public against Catholicism. “Well, that went well.”

  • Mike

    Its very telling that only when the establishment or government feels threatened itself does it call a spade a spade. Western governments over the past 2 decades have all developed the cancer of political correctness when dealing with militant Islam atrocities by refusing to link ‘Lone Wolf Jihadists’ to Islam when its obvious to a blind person the two are linked inextricably.

    With Lee Rigby, Cameron refused to link it to Islam, in the Oklahoma be-heading as well as the Fort Hood killings, Obama refused to connect the dots to Islam and ONLY when the Canadian parliament is under threat does their PM actually call it a terrorist act but still stopping short of naming the motivation.

    I just hope that these home grown Jihadists grow bolder and attack the establishment rather than innocent civilians and then perhaps government will wake up and treat the threat seriously.

    Rightly or wrongly, the English establishment had no problems rounding up the 16th/17th century associates of Guy Fawkes and extracting information so how about it Ms. May, get your act together and nail these terrorist and the causes of terrorism, namely that religion of evil.

    • GraveDave

      Under New Labour they were way too busy arresting and locking up lone wolf racist white people, like Emma West and Liam Stacey. Surely all these rude white people have to be dealt with first. It’s only right. We cant have ignorant white people having rows on buses and twitter and upsetting ‘the most successful multicultural society’ in the world’.

      According to something Tony Blair once said, anyway.

  • mariandavid

    It is interesting that here in Canada the debate has become more intelligent: Instead of moaning endlessly on about the evils of Islam on the right or our sins that caused them from the left, the interesting (I exclude our paper and TV tabloids) discussion is on why these two did what they did. Not to forgive them or despise them – though that is obviously present – but to determine for once in advance when the same desire for action may occur to others. For neither were immigrants, neither from devout Islamic (or any religious) family and most important neither got infected by a local mosque.
    Instead they self-converted and self-actioned largely if not wholly through social media. So that now attention is being paid to more than yet more police and security powers.

    • Grace Ironwood

      Sociopathic losers are attracted to Jihad, Marian.
      Why is that ?

      • Winter Jasmine

        Miriam has a point about the savages, instead of just
        moaning about them, we should deal with them.
        Its no good putting up a wall around the West and hope they won’t eventually come after us.They’re not
        sitting on their prayer mats quietly playing scrabble.

        • Grace Ironwood

          I agree.

      • mariandavid

        Usually they are not – they just descend into drug-ridden irrelevancy. In this case he did not – maybe because of a complex home situation? His father was Muslim from Libya – long vanished – his mother a westerner with a senior position in the federal government.
        The REAL problem (apologies for the capitalization) is how far does the authority of a state extend in dealing with a citizen who it is believed may soon commit a terrorist act but who has generated no legal proof of intending to do so. That was the case with the Ottawa killer and al that the Mounties and security could do was to take away his passport. Should they instead have had the authority to place him in confinement for an unspecified period. Note that the issue is without any evidence that would stand up in court.

        The political debate here will center around this with the Prime Minister ready to use the events to help win a federal election in about six months. The opposition is suspicious since clearly an expanded ‘punishment without cause’ is an approach easily extendible to more than merely Islamists!

    • Mike

      Surely your analysis rather proves the point that even though these lone wolves have no contact with devout Muslim families or radical mosques they still embrace Islam and become Jihadists. Clearly there are barbaric elements in Islam that appeal to these loners but as we can´t genetically engineer and remove undesirable effects of gene flaws from individuals the only solution is to remove the inspiration for these sorts of acts from the religion.

      We pass all manner of legislation to punish transgressors of undesirable criminal acts in an attempt to make them think twice and for many it works. Why not do the same here and punish the Islamic hate mongers for the same reason.

      • mariandavid

        You may well be right but the concern is that if so there needs to be at least some research into why ‘loners’ are attracted to this particular barbarity as opposed to, say, extreme neo-Nazism or our version here of the destructive militia-cults more prominent in the US.
        There is one vague clue – that ISIS and its ilk (not note Islam per se) are particularly attractive to the failed and the criminal who cannot establish strong social connections. And note that it is a group that specific that they are concerned with. Here in Canada at least the security forces have been proven successful in catching, as you say “those with gene flaws” when they operate as a group. It is the others that are a current concern,
        I think in the last paragraph you missed my point – it is those who have not yet transgressed that legislation needs to be, at the least,
        considered for. The issue being that with loners you usually do not know when it will shift to transgression until too late.

        • Mike

          Psychopaths or seriously mentally afflicted individuals have little or no empathy & morals and will be attracted to any group that aligns itself to their way of thinking. Other than Islam, there is no other organized international group, body or religion in existence today that preaches some of what these people believe in. You’re right in saying we can’t identify individual lone wolves but if ‘air time’ wasn’t given to Islam they wouldn’t have any inspiration to act.

          You can stop Islam providing inspiration in the west even if you can’t rid the west of nutters.

          • mariandavid

            How – censor all social media all the time? That would require a substantial shift in both legal and public attitude and could probably be circumvented.

  • One dated false flag operation deserves a current false flag operation, and another thrown in for good measure…

    Take a look at the scene of the World War I memorial incident in Canada moments after the false flag operation occurred…

    Yeah, the bystanders and police are watching a drill (in fact, most of the bystanders are paying no attention to the incident) that went live, which is called a false flag operation.

    The same tell-tale spectator behavior was seen at the May 2013 Woolwich, London incident, where two Muslim converts were said to have nearly severed a British soldier’s head…

    Funny, huh? No one stops her!

    Here’s another lady approaching the murderer holding knives, unconcerned, and none of the spectators watching and taking pictures in the foreground stops her either, because there was no murder of Lee Rigby…it was simply a drill at this stage…


    In fact, in the Woolwich, London incident MI5 forgot to place the pools of blood on the sidewalk before the cell phone cameras started snapping up pictures of the crime scene, before the late arrival of the armed police…

    …and here’s the sidewalk with the pools of blood, after the arrival of the armed police…

    The “War on Terror” is a USSR & Allies-tasked operation being carried out by the co-opted governments of the West, the purpose being to (1) destroy the prominence of the West in the eyes of the world, where the West is seen (i) invading nations without cause; (ii) causing chaos around the globe; and (iii) killing over one-million civilians and boasting of torture; (2) close off non-Russian supplies of oil for export, thereby increasing the price of oil, the higher price allowing oil exporting Russia to maintain economic stability while she modernizes and increases her military forces; (3) destroy the United States Armed Forces via the never-ending “War on Terror”; the ultimate purpose of the aforementioned to (4) bring about the demise of the United States in the world, opening up a political void to be filled by a new pan-national entity composed of Europe and Russia (replacing the European Union), a union from the “Atlantic to Vladivostok”; which will (5) see the end of NATO.

    The fraudulent “collapse” of the USSR (and East Bloc) couldn’t have been pulled off until both political parties in the United States (and political parties elsewhere in the West) were co-opted by Moscow & Allies, which explains why verification of the “collapse” was never undertaken by the West, such verification being (1) a natural administrative procedure (since the USSR wasn’t occupied by Western military forces); and (2) necessary for the survival of the West. Recall President Reagan’s favorite phrase, “Trust, but verify”.

    Notice that not one political party in the West demanded verification of the collapse of the USSR, and the media failed to alert your attention to this fact, including the “alternative” media. When determining whether the “former” USSR is complying with arms control treaties, what does the United States do to confirm compliance? Right, the United States sends into the “former” USSR investigative teams to VERIFY compliance, yet when it’s the fate of the West that’s at stake should the collapse of the USSR be a ruse, what does the United States do to confirm the collapse? Nothing!

    It gets worse–the West also never (1) de-Communized the Soviet Armed Forces of its Communist Party officer corps, which was 90% officered by Communist Party members; and (2) arrested and detained the 6-million vigilantes that assisted the Soviet Union’s Ministry of the Interior and police control the populations of the larger cities during the period of “Perestroika” (1986-1991)!

    There can be no collapse of the USSR (or East Bloc nations) without…

    Verification, De-Communization and De-mobilization.

    The West never verified the collapse of the USSR because no collapse occurred, since if a real collapse had occurred the West would have verified it, since the survival of the West depends on verification. Conversely, this proves that the political parties of the West were co-opted by Marxists long before the fraudulent collapse of the USSR, since the survival of the West depends on verification.

    Now you know why up until 2013 the “electorates” of Russia, Ukraine and Georgia had been “electing” for president only Soviet era Communist Party member Quislings, except for the first president of Georgia, Zviad Gamsakhurdia, a true dissident who didn’t even last nine months in office before he was ousted in a coup, later said to have committed “suicide”. Zviad Gamsakhurdia was a failed test run to see if a non-Communist Party member president could be controlled.

  • Robertus Maximus

    Last night I dreamt of a modern day Guy Fawkes who, exasperated at the cultural oppression we suffer under the BBC, decided to celebrate November the Fifth very close to Broadcasting House with some extraordinarily powerful fireworks.

  • How I was able to get my husband back from those home breaker

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  • John Croston

    Have Homeland’s writers dared to have a Muslim character called “Mohammad” yet? TV and film appear to avoid that name like the plague. It’s almost as if they were afraid of upsetting someone. I wonder why?