Why I’ve finally given up on the left

I wouldn’t say the “far left” but the Left in general. Otherwise, thanks for the comments.

What a boring, monochromatic and envious life many losers have!!

his is how ‘democracy’ works with the far left. You’re either ‘with us or against us’.

Now look Dan, you’ve started your own smug Tory bas*ards, backslapping party.

Had a laugh reading the rabid left wingers on the Huffington post complaining of all the hurtful things right wingers are saying about Corbyn and co.
Something of course they would never think of doing

LOL. And so true!! They’d all be thinking, “what would my tutor think about this?”

It’s such a lefty thing to do: try and find out who the enemy is!!

LOL

It’s very simple really, when you want to end the status quo you have to talk politics. You are clearly happy with the status quo because it benefits you, which is your prerogative.

However, your post ends with the kind offensive, one-eyed and cowardly attack that doesn’t reflect well on your character. You won’t discuss politics with people who disagree with you, but you’ll type away when you can smear people who can’t respond.

“Envy” is always the cry of the right and it says more about you than you realise. Wanting a world where the benefits of society are shared more equitably is not envy, it is empathy. I don’t want to benefit from an unfair system, I want to do well in a system where we all have a chance of winning and where the winners look after the losers.

It’s called community and it is something that the right often bemoans because it is dying, but takes no responsibility for killing (thank you Margaret & Ronald).

Absolutely. But don’t expect the loony left to get it. The laugh is that they actually want ‘a better society; a community”.

Listen up; this is not the way to get it!!!

Peter Sutherland EU…now HE’S smart in a malevolent way

“Karen Rooth Sue Smith • 4 hours ago
An Australian lecturing us on the damage immigrants can cause to existing societies? Priceless! Do you do children’s parties?”

Throwing assumptions at another person which result in you making sweeping borderline xenophobic generalisations about 23m people? Priceless!

Maybe the sarcasm classroom was locked when (if?) you attended school?

Australian immigrants have generally been priceless & all the different waves except one group have integrated and added great value as citizens to a successful multi-racial democracy.
We are dismayed by how disastrous mass immigration has been for Britain and Europe.

We tend to have lively polyglot children’s parties.

Living in community isn’t about being all the same; it’s about living with difference. It is about valuing the “other” people around you. It is a bout caring for other people rather than labelling them as “alien”. Communities are welcoming. Whilst you may be able to begin a club by rejecting refugees, it is no starting point for building a community.

Adolescent world view. But the new arrivals bring their own medieval religious views, Islamic terrorism and treat their women like 4th class citizens. It’s THEM you need to be talking to, sir. Don’t just shoot the easiest target – it simply alienates your fellow citizens and gives a get-out-of-jail-free card to people who don’t care at all about western culture, freedoms and free speech – preferring the “caliphate”.

But, look, on another level I’m deeply impressed that your level of altruism and generosity extends to you willingly being prepared to stump up and pay more taxes and more for services to support thousands more people. Yeah, that’s as impressive as it is inevitable.

Celebrate difference? Sheesh. Life is more complex than empty and meaningless lefty slogans. You’ll realize that once you grow up a little.

You clearly know nothing about the degree of diversity that exists in Islamic states. Consider for instance the role Christianity has played in Syria over the last 1400 years and then tell me how it is we are more open to the other. Or indeed how a country must have “common language, culture & ethics”. But you just need to look at the history of the UK to realize that we have never had a common language, culture and ethics. The problem is community has broken down to such a degree, largely I think because people stopped going to church, that many people in Britain feel isolated and thus scared of everybody else.

That’s well meant but naive. You can value other people in the personal sense, but you are under no obligation to value their culture if it is one which is doctrinally antithetical to modernity and the Western/free-world norms of freedom, democracy, and equality.

This is why multiculturalism has, in fact, sown division in society. For the health of a society, it is of paramount importance to anatomise and celebrate what is shared in ethical and other values, rather than what is not.

check out Peter Sutherland EU fatcat..on homogeneity

I once
asked a South African politician why so many wealthy individuals supported left wing parties in South Africa. He’s reply at the time was that they could afford
to buy their ‘apartheid’ the lower classes could not, hence south Africans (white that is) tended to vote left if they were wealthy. Suburbs like Houghton were safe seats for liberal parties; a similar situation is developing in modern Britain with people who can afford to buy their ‘apartheid’.

Your stats on lottery -winners seem a little wishful.Source?

So you say immigrants are good only if they fill the gap in skilled labor and benefit your country? Aren’t you forgetting that it were Britishers who went to other territories first, colonised and plundered them and enriched your great nation with the loots of colonies. Now they are all following you home for their fair share.

Do that makes it OK then?

Yes, because unlike every other empire the British Empire was based of free trade – and free trade is wonderful!

Yes free trade in opium I think was one of those free trades that the British Empire enabled through as Mao might say, the barrel of a gun.

No such thing.

Grace has made all the right moves. I agree in principle with what she has said.

The irony of your reply is actually quite staggering. “No sense of self-awareness” you say, while careering into a far-right rant about someone you know nothing about. Brilliant!

I’m a higher-rate taxpayer and my family have been knighted and held held a hereditary title for generations, so I’m afraid you’re a little wide of the mark with your attempted character reference.

The whole point of ending the status quo is that actually the people with all the money actually don’t pay for “all us whiners”, that burden is disproportionately paid for by working class and middle class people.

What makes it worse is that since the 1980’s the trickle down theory has actually massively shrunk the income of working an middle class families and creted a tiny elite of people who suck money out of the real economy.

Well, aren’t you just the little charmer?

Sue, you really need some help. You’re so paranoid and angry. Your apparent lack of any knowledge of the subject and inability to engage in a discussion without resorting to bilious playground name-calling, makes me wonder if this is some kind of surreal cry for help.

You’re a nutter. It’s fun to read. Hope you never hold any power over any other beings. You’re too much of a berk to handle it.

No, they’re more to your level. I understand you and your loathsome ilk just fine. And you shall be defeated in my lifetime. You communists will get into the dustbin of history, and it will be us capitalists that put you there, solidly, never to emerge again.

Sure. What “capitalist” mean to you?

And you’re a troll. This is the third comment of yours that’s just name calling. You clearly have nothing to add to a discussion. Comment at will I’ll be ignoring your petty crap.

I was given this surname. I don’t steal.

You make a lot of assertions that cannot be verified. For all we know, you could be living under a bridge. We care little for your present situation.

The burden of taxation is overwhelmingly borne by the so-called “rich”. Please do some elementary research on this subject.

“Trickle down” isn’t a thing, and never has been. If you actually knew what you were talking about, you would realize you are attacking the purest definition of a straw man.

The irony inherent in all this is that as the power of the state has grown, taxes have increased and regulations have become ever more fine means of splicing hairs and determining the appropriate count of angels dancing on pins, inequality has INCREASED. And the rate of increase in inequality is increasing. Such a conundrum!

I take it that as you have inherited a title, that you are not one of those parliamentary money grabbing freeloaders.
The more wealthy people that I cannot abide are those who have made their money by dishonestly crippling poor people! These people are greedy, despicable and very obnoxious!
I would actually like to see the honest wealthy people pay less taxes. By creating a tax haven in the UK, we are inviting more wealthy people who will then use their money to some extent within the UK. This money will flow through the economy and help it to grow.
I would prefer investments in the UK to come from UK based people with their interests in this country, not invisible overseas conglomerates.

There is literally no point continuing this discussion with you John. You’re asking questions like ‘what is the economy’ and ‘who are the rich’ like these are profound questions, when they’re just pretentious college debating society nonsense to which anyone with a scrap of intelligence already know the answers.

I’ve already answered why we should pay taxes. You may not think those are valid reasons but pretending they’re not there in black and white is not answering the challenge.

And finally, did you just learn about ‘straw man arguments’ at college? Well done you for adding another idiom to your writing. Unfortunately for you calling something a straw man argument does not make it so. Along with financial deregulation, trickle down theory is one of the underpinning philosophies of Conservative and neoconservative philosophy. There are economic models aplenty and the arguments given for an economy structured to benefit the super-wealthy (or ‘wealth creators’ as they are sometimes called, without a hint of irony) are all based on this – debunked – theory. Your ignorance of this does not make it somehow disappear, it just demonstrates your lack of knowledge of a subject you are so happy to shout your mouth off about.

I shall not be wasting any more time on this thread John. Have a lovely day in the library studying for your exams.

You clearly don’t understand the most elemental facts of taxation, despite your claims to hereditary social status. Good luck with that. Who cares if some blight’s grandfather or great-grandfather was knighted, does that make anything you write more correct?

In most of the developed nations, the wealthy pay a much higher proportion of the overall tax burden – whether it is the top 1%, 5% or 10% – then their representation in the population. This is especially true in the United States, where people are always told that the poor – who pay a tiny percentage of the tax burden – are having the money they don’t have transferred to the rich. And, in the U.S. and U.K. increasingly the bottom half of the income scale is receiving transfer payments, which are often not even part of many income calculations. In the states transfers often leap people who have never worked above honest workers, taking someone with no legal income and giving them a $40,000 – $60,000 life style, above what someone who makes a middle income on their own makes, someone who isn’t attached to the government teat.

I don’t really care a lot what the percentage is that I am paying of I make 25,000 pounds a year in the U.K. if that is offset by all sorts of subsidies do I? That has to be part of any remotely honest discussion. I read all the time about immigrants in the U.K. with lavish benefits, subsidized housing in posh neighborhoods, transfer payments that make them upper middle class. Well, all that money is not being generated by the poor, it is being confiscated from the upper classes and transferred to people who often have no intention of holding a job.

This is from the scholarly paper titled “The progressivity of UK taxes and transfers” :

“However, the past 30 years has seen an increasing proportion of the population of total
households becoming overall net recipients of the state. This has been particularly marked in the
past ten years: in 2010/11, 53.4 per cent of total households received more in benefits than they
paid in taxes – compared to 43.1 per cent in 1979 and 43.8 per cent in 2000/01. Around three
million more households were net recipients of the state in 2010/11 than just ten years earlier.” This is probably even more the case now, five years on.

Now, clearly if more than half of the nation, the U.K. is receiving transfer payments, then someone who is paying more in taxes than the recipients is paying for it, right? There may be some here whose own money may be transferred back to them of course, but then that should only show the folly of big government in the first place, as they would be better off just buying what they need in the first place without the states hand in their wallet.

I answered A. I’m not a simpleton. You, as a leftist, are by definition the lowest form of simpleton. Enjoy that.

Another with nothing to say. Where did you immigrate from, Mars?

She is. I’m not a leftist. Other things too, but especially that.

The left/right divide will never be solved, because there are in the end two competing philosophies that are, in the end impossible to reconcile. I will never feel that I have the right to tell anyone that I expect a share of their income.

There are no new ideas, what all of us are arguing about here or anywhere lease are ideas that were born in the French Enlightenment or the British/American Enlightenment and which were further developed in the 19th century.

My side takes our ideas from Locke, Burke, Hume, Smith, Montesquieu, Madison, Hamilton,Jefferson, Adams and the other American founders. The other is much more influenced by Voltaire, Rousseau and other later thinkers, Marx and Engels among them. The American and the French Revolution beautifully contrast the competing, ideals and outcomes. One that was interested in freedom, in liberty, in providing opportunity, though with the original sin of African slavery, the other, liberty, brotherhood and equality of outcome. Equality of outcome.

One revolt, which was never very popularly opposed in Britain ended reasonably peacefully, the other, like so many other revolutions from the left, ended in chaos, bloodshed and then of course, a popular dictatorship because people desire order, not chaos. Because each revolt seems to become a test of idealogical purity and descend into the rule of men, not the rule of law. In the end though, that dictatorship left the home country in tatters and millions dead from the gates of Moscow to the gates of Brussels. It seems so often that the mobs, the chanting, marching mobs, are always on the left. Always seeking an overreaction from the authorities – from Bloody Sunday in St. Petersburg in 1905 – to Ferguson, Missouri in 2014, so that a real revolt and more bloodshed will occur. The head on the pikes thing, is a leftist thing. You can keep your poissards.

One side believes in trying to create nations that provide as much of an equal opportunity to succeed as possible. We, those who are conservatives or libertarians or some mix of the two, have what some call a “constrained vision” of mankind and what is politically possible and moral. We believe in original sin in the sense that because man is born flawed, neither he nor the states he lives in of is perfectible. That the best we can ever do is muddle though.

We believe that trying to insure equality of outcome is a fool’s errand, because once you start fiddling, trying to equalize for peoples backgrounds, resources, intelligence and motivation, the evening up just provides more distortions than freedom ever could, so the fiddling never stops.

That is why I have a hopping mad relive in the states who has never taken a thing from the government, who is in the lower middle class, seething at neighbors who have never worked, who have next to new cars, eat out all the time, live more than a middle class existence and have done nothing, nothing to deserve it. In the states many of them make $40-60,000 a year, without things like medical, education or infrastructure figured in, just in income, housing subsidies, food. And of course once you create a state based on envy, jealousy and resentment of what others have and earn and what a piece of it, you have a population that is seething with resentment. I read articles all the time in the U.K. media with people on the dole with lavish housing, who don’t work, asking for more, more, more. As if they have a right to steal someone’s else’ hard earned money with the help of the all-knowing beneficent state.

Because the west, the U.K., the United States, France, had economic freedom, things like royalties, patents, corporations, fiducial instruments, the freedom to make money, which could then be reinvested, once the Industrial Revolution began it kept ahead of the rest of the world.

It was the free nations of the west with all their capitalistic excesses that have made people’s lives better all over the world, even in the third world, where incomes are rising. Hundreds of millions of poor people in third world nations are alive today because of medical and scientific advances pioneered by giants like Dr. Lister, or Norman Borlaug or the men who conquered Yellow Fever or Small Pox or Malaria. All of these things took investment, that’s right, the dirty, filthy lucre that is the mother’s milk of virtually every worthwhile development, the idea that someone can actually benefit from their intelligence and hard work, which incentives the spread of the very western civilization that the left wants to tear down in common cause with the angry Mullahs and clitoris cutting monsters of fundamentalist Islam. On Yank college campuses, they worry about “microagressions,” while thousands of girls are kidnapped and sold into sex slavery from one end of the Ummah to the other. They worry about silly things while heads are chopped off, people burned alive and Muslims who cut their beard are slaughters and homosexuals are thrown off buildings. These are labour’s “friends,” right? People who hang homosexuals from cranes with mobs cheering. Perhaps the love of mobs is the commonality?

Because millions of small investors and inventors could make money by inventing and then making improvements in everything from the steam engine to farm machinery to flush toilets and septic systems, hundreds of millions of people graduated from subsistence farming or urban lives of abject poverty 250 years ago to join the ranks of the lower middle class, the middle class and the wealthy and virtually everyone in the west gains assets over time, people can start out poor and join the middle class. Because of the market economy the left despises or feels a few expert selectmen should control, even the most lowly households have devices that keep them warm, cool or save labor, devices that even the wealthy could only dream of 100 years ago.

If I am in the states I can go into a big box store and purchase an air conditioner that will cool an apartment for $99, as much as kids spend on sneakers. If I want to live on rice and beans and a basic diet, I could eat for $200 or $250 a month. When I was traveling in the states a few years ago, my bag was lost and I went to Wall Mart and equipped myself with a week’s worth of changes of clothes for $200, including a belt and underwear and undershirts. My ancestors had two pairs of pants, a few shirts, socks that grandma darned and a Sunday Suit and they lived happy, healthy lives.

People who live on the dole today in the U.S. or U.K. are morbidly obese, have homes that are awash in clothes and massive refrigerators that overflow with food that taxpayers pay for. All that is only possible because there were reasonably free markets and reasonably free trade. If the hard left had its way, none of that would have happened. Everyone may possible equal, but mired in poverty, because it is human nature to want to succeed but also to profit for it. That is why the small percentage of private plots of land – 3% at one time if memory serves – in the Soviet Union grew something like 30% of the crops. That is why they had to murder millions to collectivize the farms.

I believe in a flat tax. I believe everyone should contribute. I believe on principle of everything contributing.

Why pray tell is wanting to keep what you earn “greedy” and someone putting their hand in your pocket to confiscate more of what you have earned because of an accident of birth or because you have worked bloody hard not “greedy?”

The deck is not stacked against anyone who works hard. There is no government preventing anyone in the United States or the United Kingdom from getting ahead. Anyone who studies hard, keeps off of drink and drugs, doesn’t get pregnant or get someone pregnant at 16, stays in school and applies themselves can join the middle class and have a decent life. Anyone. It will of course be harder if your mum is a meth addict or your father is a fanatical red who is mad at the world, but no government, no massive, all-knowing, all-seeing beneficent state, on unconstrained vision of humanity and its possibilities, no delusional view that sees the world as you want it to be, will insure equality. The best we can do is to let free people make their own decisions and then accept the consequences when they turn out, well, not so well.

They pay their taxes o foolish one, so yes, they paid for the road and infrastructure they use.

Nothing the government provides in commonality is provided out of beneficence nor free, people pay a bloody lot of taxes for it, so your argument is asinine.

And, I can assure you that when I went to a state school – which my relative did not – it wasn’t free. I paid cash on the barrel for my education.

I had a client in one of the most expensive ares of the United States who paid $40,000 a year in housing taxes, which in his state are used for public education, yet all throe of his children went to private schools from kindergarden to university, The rich end up paying much more than their so called “fair share” when in comes to infrastructure, more in road taxes because they drive a more expensive car, though they drive on the same road as the person with the 1966 VW, more in housing taxes, which often pay for education, though they can’t have any more children than others, same gestation time for rich and poor.

My relative by the way went to private school and by the way paid taxes so that others could go to public school. In the states those who opt for a better private education still have to pay taxes for public schools, so they end up paying for a benefit they don’t use.

Yes, it seems that the left and right are both angry. The left because the rush to the utopian dystopia of multicultural hell is just not occurring fast enough with the Tories in charge and the right because they see what was a nice country being destroyed.

I always liked the English as my father did from 1943-1945. We never thought, “Boy, you know what would really fix England, a lot of socialistic policies and millions of angry immigrants who hate England and everything English. My father managed to get around a lot during and after the war, so I never had any illusions about the Soviet Union or Nazi Germany or Cuba. Growing up with Russians, Poles, Czechs and around a number of Holocaust survivors, I never had any illusions about the other systems of governance and persecution. I knew that the west was far, far, from perfect, but that it offered the best opportunity for the most people than anything in history.

Then, as I got older and was able to experience the unpleasantness of DDR myself, the line was drawn even more sharply. So, yes, I am angry to see the west committing slow, steady economic, political and cultural suicide. I just have to figure some way to rescue the Adoration of the Mystic Lamb before the new overlords that the left is turning the world over to dynamite it, like they are every bit of civilization they get their hands on.

I am sorry, but it is you who are hiding your head in the sand. If you hate your own county as labour’s new leader does, then all is well, but if you are on the other side of the divide, well, then all of the western European nations are going the wrong way.

You simply cannot sustain a socialized nation with mass immigration, especially from people who do not share your language, values nor work ethic. The tail has to wag the dog at some point, the number of makers v.s takers is too small to sustain things. At a certain point as Thatcher said, you run out of other people’s money to confiscate to pay for it all.

No country that is headed in the right direction can sustain a large minority – many of them on public support – who hates them, especially when Europeans have a low birth rate and the people on the dole who hate them have a high one. How can that work.

And of course the pressure, both from immigrant communities and from the left is for immigrants to keep their own wonderful cultural values, not assimilate English, French, Dutch, Swedish, German or Spanish values.

Netherlands asylum seekers attacked in shelters:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nk1PTZBqTBU
(Dutch language, sorry)

Twenty Terror Cells in little Belgium:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B741xrM-7os

Sharia in Belgium:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQjL31sdtzo

Terror Across Europe:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PheG91Kpoes

Sharia Patrols, London, Sweden:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ra45nX9JmW4

Muslim Riots, Sweden:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdXUmIoP768

Rape Epidemic in Scandinavia:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoiCYwoJKrE

Sweden, 2015:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlG75wb7lLw

Muslim Sweden:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGMOpb1ngvU

Sorry, but you are the one completely lacking a shrewd of self-awareness. I presume you don’t even turn on the news, or manage to filter out what is going on in Europe or in the Middle East.

There are millions of people who want to invade your countries and not assimilate, not fit in, as American immigrants used to do, but to take over and they make that very clear. Sharia patrols are all over the U.K., Belgium, the Netherlands, Sweden, intimidating everyone. That is not paranoia, but reality. How will any of them assimilate when the left doesn’t want them to? How to do acculturate someone who hates your culture and wants to wrap every woman in a sack?

There is an epidemic of rapes across Europe, 1,400 in one English city. Are these girls and women just speed bumps, collateral damage on the way to a multicultural utopia? 1,400 female citizens raped, covered by by Labour members of parliament and the police. There are smaller but similar rings all over the U.K.

In the Middle East there are thousands and thousands of innocent Christian girls who are sex slaves now. Do they deserve their fates? Thousands of insufficiently pious Muslims who are butchered for trimming a beard, watching soccer, not praying. People burned alive from Libya to Iraq and Syria. And these same people want your nations and are seeding the refugees with their terrorists.

Did 3/11, 7/11 or 9/11 make no impact on you? 22,000 attacks worldwide since 9/11, 22,000. And of course, without billions and billions of dollars and robbing every European and American and Australian of many of their civil liberties, the attacks would be much more frequent, without hundreds of arrests of plotters and planners.

I am well educated, well read, well traveled and follow the news in many different nations. I explained the left/right divide and while we have nothing, nothing in common, especially as the fanatical left has replaced the left of the 1930s and 1940s, so we will naturally see the world very differently, a Corbynite and myself.

However, what you see as “paranoia” is reality. If it wasn’t then all these things that are happening across Europe, the wave of crime, the imposition of Sharia law on wide swaths of “democratic” countries would not be happening.

So, if you live in some happy little enclave or have a nice sinecure somewhere, watch some of the videos above and educate yourself. Rotherham alone should have made any self-respecting woman – or anyone who cares about women – leave Labour forever.

Two posts her with lots of lovely links to show who is the one lacking self or situational awareness, which of course is you and other members of the multi-culti, hide-your-head-in-sand-and-filter-out-reality utopians.

Take a look at the million rapes in the UK article for starters, for an eye-opener and then all the videos for a reality chaser…

Life in the U.K. is just peachy right? That is shy a Labour MP states that immigrant rape rings may have one million victims in the U.K. (Article below.) Thats a Labour MP, the party who covered up the rapes, not a right winger who is speaking about a million rapes.

Nothing to see here Jon, right, move along, no one cares about the small matter of these speed bumps on the way to a leftist, multi-culti utopia. Should European girls just look upon rape fondly as part of the experience of growing up in “Cool Britannia? Hell, British girls are being raped as though the Red Army occupied it.

“Rotherham’s Labour MP Sarah Champion describes it as a “national disaster” and is demanding a taskforce to fight the “horror”here could be up to a million victims of child sexual exploitation in the UK, it is feared.

Rotherham’s Labour MP Sarah Champion describes it as a “national disaster” and is demanding a taskforce to fight the “horror.”

In an exclusive interview with the Daily Mirror the shaken MP has told how she ‘nearly lost her mind’ after victims turned to her for help – unable to trust the police or local council.

She is currently getting an average of 10 victims a week coming to her for help.

Fighting back tears she told how she feared having a nervous breakdown worried about failing the “amazing women” and her horror after finding out a manual for grooming existed for paedophiles.

The MP was speaking after the Government announced they were taking over Rotherham Council for a “fresh start” and sending five commissioners to run the troubled authority.”

Is a 1,000,000 too many rapes? How many rapes are necessary for a multicultural paradise Jon? Are the women of Europe supposed to grin and bear it and think of how great things will be under Sharia, when they will be wrapped in a potato sack and not be raped?

Another 400 rape victims here:
http://news.sky.com/story/1437596/sex-gangs-may-have-abused-hundreds-of-girls

(Multiculturalist Collateral Damage) Is 400 o.k. Jon?

Pakistani Rapists Galore:
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/child-sex-abuse-gangs-could-5114029

Database on Child Rape Rings in UK/Ireland:
heukdatabase.com/uk-child-abusers-named-and-shamed/muslim-paedo-rings-in-the-uk-why

“Rape Jihad:
http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/3846/britain-child-grooming

Lots more below on the reality of Europe in 2015

My parent’s taxes were extracted by the state, so yes, my education was paid for. That’s what taxes are for. You can’t opt out of the taxation, so we all pay for our own education and that of our children. No one in my family has ever ridden for free. We are all forced to pay into the educational system, whether we use it or not. And as I point out, millions of people pay for private school and are taxed for public education at the same time, so lots of non-workers can take advance of the system. I put myself into college, my folks paid taxes so that I could attend K-8 and high school. No free rider, contributor.

Philosophically, I cam against all state education. I feel it all should be paid for my those who use it. However, I can’t snap my fingers and make it happen, so we all have to use the system we are born into. Some of my relatives home schooled, to they used that workaround, but that was virtually unknown when I came up, since I am an old snot now.

No please read, Parents, that word that I used repeatedly in the paragraphs above. The people who have and raise children. Parents. Yes, I actually feel that parents should pay for their children’s education. Amazing, because I guess you think the money comes from unicorn horns and fairy dust, but in the end, education costs money, lots and lots of it. Teachers have to be paid, books provided and schoolrooms created, heated and cooled and cleaned.

So, because education costs money. I have the novel idea that parents, who after all decide to bring their little blighters into the world, should pay to feed, clothe, house and yes, educate their own precious offspring. In the end, we value what we pay for and if parents have to pay for their children, their expectations would be much higher, not only for said children, but for the teachers and institution as well.

And of course if we have to pay for the children we choose to bring into the world – because when I man ejaculates into a woman and thus fertilizes her seed – he is doing do voluntarily and thus must be held responsible for his act. The more we subsidize stupid behavior the more we have of it.

As far as university, people should either pay to put themselves through school, by working their way though, like I did, or through their parent’s graciousness or though loans as millions do.

The more distance there is between who is paying for something and who receives the benefits, the less the person who receives the benefits appreciates it or takes it seriously.

When I pay for my offspring at a university, you can bet they won’t be taking silly courses with no practical nor intellectual application.

Well, personally, I would attach the income of those who have children and refuse to pay for them, if not, off to jail, where they can work for a living like the rest of us.

For orphans, we can have orphanages or adoptions. My friends in the states in Oregon have adopted three unwanted children. There is a tremendous waiting list for children to adopt.

The issue is that the state keeps trying to reunite a “family” that consists of a crack or meth addled mum with six children from four different men. So, by the time they decide int their wisdom to terminate parental rights, the children are so old and traumatized that they are difficult to adopt out.

Ideally, if the state was trimmed down to its most basic level, as the United States was prior to the Great War, most of the problems that are left over could be handled by private charity, which actually works much better. With a minimalist state, I have nothing against a small safety net for those who fall through the cracks.

The problem is that the bigger a “safety net” grows, the more you manage to disable the able. In the states, the level of fraud in virtually every welfare and transfer program is staggering. Tens of billions a year in IRS refunds are sent to people who are dead or never existed in the first place. Millions collect disability payments with nothing wrong with them.

My great-grandparents belonged to a religious community that took care of its own. If someone was disabled for a time or perpetually, they found something they could do or took care of them. They didn’t rely on the state or outsiders. This was how the United States used to function and they didn’t have thousands of people living on the streets of the major cities either.

Thanks for the exchanges. I have to get back to something that compensates me, so that I can pay my taxes and put some meat on the table.

First Simon, a smaller government, a more responsible population where people freely associate, would not be a dystopia, but a vast improvement on the societies that we are living in now.

We are not headed to utopia, but dystopia thanks to the increasingly left wing policies all of the western nations have adopted. The status quo was probably not so bad twenty years ago, but we are headed rapidly downhill in many ways.

First of all, massive welfare states and mass immigration – especially from nations who by-and-large do not share western values, culture nor its once great work ethic – and a massive “everything is free – welfare state is incompatible and unsustainable. You have a seething mass of five million or more displace people chomping at the bit right now, waiting to get into Germany and the U.K.

If things continue in the direction they are going now with Labour’s wonderful multicultural project – where you may terrorists and terrorist recruiters from the taxpayer pocket – you will have another mass of people who are unwilling or unable to ever get a job. Even if you hide your head in the sand, you have to realize that at some point, the tail is wagging the dog and the ratio of producers vs. recipients becomes too much for the nation to bear, hence cuts in your health care in the U.K.

There just can’t be an unlimited number of takers vs. the makers and the drag on all the western nations – who are after all borrowing much of what they spend in many cases right? – becomes unsustainable and the quality of life devolves for all, but those who live in towering apartment blocks in the tony Knightsbridge or Kensington Gardens, where I used to stay when I was in the U.K.

The United States at least successfully assimilated its refugees and immigrants, or at least it used to, though it too has become a “salad bowl,” of clitoris-cutting multi-cultis thanks to the quaint notion that all cultures are equal. The states no longer believes in a common culture for immigrants to aspire to, save mass consumerism. But in Europe, things are far worse, you have large swaths of the U.K. with de facto Sharia zones, same for the Netherlands, Sweden, Belgium and France. The mayor of Brussels was ordered to “convert or die.” In France, the Banlieues have millions of residents, vast blocks of people from Morocco, Algeria or Africa who are not at all assimilated into French culture, most of whom will never hold a job in their natural lives. That looks frigging dystopian to me from where I am sitting. Imagine, no prospect for anything meaningful for your entire life, just life on the dole.

Crime, especially from the “community” of immigrants from the Ummah is out of control, especially in Sweden. When my family lived in Norway, rape was virtually unknown, but no longer and for years, every rape in Oslo has been committed by an immigrant. I think if I was a blonde haired Swedish lass, in Malmo, the rape capital of Europe, I would think I lived in a bit of a dystopia now.

Even one of Blair’s ministers said that Labour had gone too far in its attempt to de-Anglicize the U.K. thanks to mass immigration. Do ‘ya think? Well, it turns out that all of the elite across Europe had the same idea, to use mass immigration – primarily from the Islamic lands – to destabilize their nations. Because the British elite hate the average Briton, the Danish elite spits on the average Dane, the Swedish elite thinks being blonde and Swedish is a vile thing and so, on, they all thought a mass of immigrants from people who they had nothing in common with was just the thing, right?

So, the people who are so egalitarian created completely bifurcated societies, a tier of the poor Swedes who have to work hard to pay for millions of no-account immigrants who hate them by and large and the new permanent Islamic vacation class. Thanks for that. This looks pretty dystopian to me Simon. Each European nation now has a native born population (one who already had enough of their own work adverse and bath adverse takers) and a large, seething mass of unhappy immigrants who hate their new home and everything it has stood for.

And, of course, this seething mass of entitled, often hateful immigrants has a lot of time on their hands, especially the cohort of young men. And what dose anyone with a spare synapse or two to rub together know about young men with nothing worthwhile to do? They usually have lots of time for sex with an almost equally unemployed cohort of women, meaning that really, really, unhappy part of the U.K. and its Euroallies is having many more children then the working part. That looks like a pretty bleak future, especially because if there is one thing we know, it is that socialized economies don’t grow a lot and carry obscene levels of unemployment, in fact usually far higher than official counts, because when you aren’t “looking,” you aren’t counted.

Then, this mass of angry immigrants with a lot of time on their hands is of course as we have seen ripe for recruitment into terrorist groups and has lots of time for crime. Danes are something like 9th or 10th as far as criminal identification in their own country, with different immigrant groups holding pole position and all of the other points scoring positions in the Dansk crime championships.

I would also like to advance the notion that anyone with the least interest in human rights and equality before the law would agree that dystopia is with us now in places like Rotherham where more than a thousand English citizens were raped. We don’t need to import terrorists from ISIS to the UK because Labour has sponsored ISIS polices and then hidden the crimes already. And of course Rotherham it turns out is only the tip of the iceberg as there are plenty of other rape rings with immigrant perpetrators and English victims, though none of them may have gone on as long and had so many victims. England has its Jimmy Saville, it didn’t need to import and cover up for hundreds more. Dystopia, well that’s in the eye of beholder and I would think a minor girl who has been gang raped thinks she has seen something dystopian. Status quo? Not so great!

And of course, at the same time your allies have conspired to ruin all of Europe with a combination of a expansive safety net – all of which was only possible because they lived under an umbrella of American protection – and mass immigration from unfriendly countries, the birthrate is declining precipitously because Europeans have lost faith in themselves and in the future. So, the status quo is not worth keeping and the future looks dystopian indeed.

So, Europe has not been flooded with millions of immigrants from the Muslim lands?

Labour did not institute this as a policy under Blair?

Please put this in your pipe and smoke it:

“The huge increases in migrants over the last decade were partly due to a politically motivated attempt by ministers to radically change the country and “rub the Right’s nose in diversity”, according to Andrew Neather, a former adviser to Tony Blair, Jack Straw and David Blunkett.” 23/Oct/2009

He said Labour’s relaxation of controls was a deliberate plan to “open up the UK to mass migration” but that ministers were nervous and reluctant to discuss such a move publicly for fear it would alienate its “core working class vote”.

And terrorists in the U.K. and France and other E.U. countries have not been on the dole? Anjem Choudry and all the men he recruited don’t ring a bell?

More than a thousand girls were not raped in Rotherham and Labour Party officials and the police didn’t cover it up?

There are not millions of people attempting to flee Libya, Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria and Yemen for Germany, the EU and the U.K?

Millions of immigrants – many of them from the Muslim lands are not on public support from Sweden to German, to the U.K. and Italy?

Sorry, but you’re the one who is delusional if you believe the status quo is fine.

So, Europe has not been flooded with millions of immigrants from the Muslim lands?

Labour did not institute this as a policy under Blair?

Please put this in your pipe and smoke it:

“The huge increases in migrants over the last decade were partly due to a politically motivated attempt by ministers to radically change the country and “rub the Right’s nose in diversity”, according to Andrew Neather, a former adviser to Tony Blair, Jack Straw and David Blunkett.” 23/Oct/2009

He said Labour’s relaxation of controls was a deliberate plan to “open up the UK to mass migration” but that ministers were nervous and reluctant to discuss such a move publicly for fear it would alienate its “core working class vote”.

And terrorists in the U.K. and France and other E.U. countries have not been on the dole? Anjem Choudry and all the men he recruited don’t ring a bell?

More than a thousand girls were not raped in Rotherham and Labour Party officials and the police didn’t cover it up?

There are not millions of people attempting to flee Libya, Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria and Yemen for Germany, the EU and the U.K?

Millions of immigrants – many of them from the Muslim lands are not on public support from Sweden to German, to the U.K. and Italy?

Meanwhile, German school girls are told not to wear their skirts because it offends their new overlords.

Sorry, but you’re the one who is delusional if you believe the status quo is fine.

What an insightful comment. You might want to begin by making a point.

I should have been more careful with my choice of words here. Middle class people pay more as a percentage of wealth (note, not just income).

So, this is your second comment on my posts and still no actual points, just name calling. Impressive stuff!

You haven’t got a clue what you’re talking about. Your concept of fairness is always one sided, you never ever talk about the contribution to society. No you are totally and utterly wrong if you want to change anything you have to get off your backside and contribute and no I dont mean demonstrate, damage and loot. Talking politics is the most futile thing you can do. As to your last paragraph I suggest you join us on planet reality and just read some of the spiteful, vitriolic, evil hatred spouted by your left wing mates. You seem blissfully unaware that the winners have indeed been looking after losers for a very long time. A community my friend consists of lots of different people doing different things with different views, in fact its the left who don’t understand community. White van drivers, English flags, and all . Sanctimonious lefty claptrap RedLT

People discuss politics all the time – it’s just that the Left try to shut it down.

You’re just making wild accusations about my beliefs. Please tell me more of what I think, this is fascinating…

On the off chance you’re interested in reality, I’m a committed capitalist and I entirely agree with you that everyone needs to step up and play their part to make it work.

Where I diverge from you is that I think capitalism can be so much more than shareholder return. I think it can be something that rewards creativity and hard work, but provides a safety net for those who lose.

Your rubbish about the left not understanding community is laughable. The left are responsible for the NHS, social security, race relations act and sexuality discrimination laws. It’s a little rich for you to claim we don’t understand community.

I wish people would stop listening to extremists and claiming they represent everyone.

Do you have any contribution or are you just trolling?

The problem is if he did reply he would be shunned. There are very negative repercussions these days (including employment) to having too many people know you are of a conservative mind. There are zero repercussions to stating the most disturbing of leftist views.

I suspect what Sue believes is what I believe, that politics is not a matter for the workplace. As the left and right have been driven farther and farther apart – due to the Internet in part – people tend to disagree more and more violently. So, in order to have a smooth working environment, its best to leave politics for other forums.

I am more than willing to discuss politics anywhere else and I am usually able to keep calm and discuss contentious matters in a reasonable way, even with people who I disagree with. However, making the assumption at work that everyone agrees with you, left or right, prattling on, is insensitive and unprofessional, especially if the deck is stacked against someone numerically. I like to discuss or argue politics, but not everyone does and there are also many people who are perfectly intelligent and well informed who are not good, nor comfortable at debate. Not everyone feels lunch should be “Prime Minister’s Question Time,” with the shadow cabinet of your local school, hospital or staff room.

“I don’t want to benefit from an unfair system.”

You’ll certainly condemn, then, any prominent left-wingers who send their offspring to private schools and grammar schools?

The only idea of “community” you have is one where where you’re in charge and feathering your own nest.

Nothing to do with equality and everything to do with the fact you lack the wit and wisdom do make anything of yourself.

As for your laughable comments about empathy – penny to a pound says that for all of your posturing towards an equitable society, you treat those closest to you like dirt and come out with this disingenuous BS to hide just what a nasty piece of work you actually are.

Never mind, we can all rest easy because you’ll be found out eventually and all of your dishonest claims will amount to nothing, just like you have.

Life ain’t fair.

Deal with it.

“‘Envy” is always the cry of the right”?????

Good grief, have you ever read such brain-dead, counterfactual rubbish in your life?

Your left sort of empathy routinely kills off as many people as possible in the name of egalitarianism. In the 1950s Mao waged war on the landlords. Turns out there were tens of millions of them! Who knew?

The left’s sense of community is always enforced and the “benefits” redistributed—or else.

But don’t fret. I suspect that you are in little danger of benefitting from a just society. It’s too much work.

Red, It is generally agreed that it is modernity that killed the community. And traditional society. The atomisation (and anomie) is what we experience is result of hyper-individualism and, in western societies, this is compounded by the damage done to social cohesion by multiculturalism

How ironic that those that mouth off about conservatives being rich, arrogant, and out of touch, are indeed virtue signalling numpties who are rich, arrogant, and out of touch.

Everyone who is a political and moral liberal (“progressive”) assumes that all the people they know are also liberal. Those who are politically and morally conservative merely HOPE that those they know might share their viewpoint.

“Conservatives never presume” Wrong! I live in Surrey UK. My neighbour a Jeremy Corbyn supporter, told me she was told by a work colleague recently. “Ah now you’ve bought a house in……, you will vote Tory with us!”

Your arrogance and elitism is getting slaughtered here by people with far keener minds than you.

I’d think about giving up and going to bed if I were you.

Ha ha! Your snobbish pomposity is
indistinguishable from parody. Does self-congratulation give you a warm glow,
Sue?

I hate to play the grammar card Sue, but two subjects in a sentence will surely lead you to “Arrogance and elitism ARE being slaughtered.
More relevantly, your’e talking total tosh as others have pointed out better than I could.

Interesting. You assume that lefties presume but when shown that Tories too presume, they learn it from the Left. I wish they learnt more.
Re: ‘trickle down’, I think you really need to read (or google in the least) than to assume that it is envy.

You shouldn’t have left (pardon the pun).

I stick around, I argue and I wind them up.

Why? Because in their opinion any smart, well-spoken, educated person would vote and think just like they do.

LOL

Hit a nerve, did I?

You have my sympathy, Madam. And it’s the PRESUMPTION which so gets up my nose. Arrogance on steroids and yet the Left will always turn the tables and say that’s what the Right does. It’s called a “projection”!! Psychologists are onto this kind of behaviour and call it out.

As I write this Al Jezeera here on Sydney TV is presenting stories about poor, unfortunate ‘migrants’ amassing at the Croation border and having to deal with “xenophobic, racist Europeans”.

Now, repeat after me readers..

STICKS AND STONES MAY BREAK MY BONES,
BUT NAMES WILL NEVER HURT ME.

I could agree with you but your syntax made your comment incomprehensible.

As much as I appreciate your revulsion, nothing will change until these people learn that there exist views outside their bubble. One of the great things about the semi-educated spartist left is how they are so easily blindsided by the realisation that they are being spoken to by someone that disagrees with their worldview and says so openly without the slightest hint of embarassment. You will be amazed at how the left wing noise machine declines in volume and often becomes almost embarassed once it realises that you are immune to emotional guilt tripping and cultural intimidation. They rely on the fact that the average person fears the ‘social death’ of being thought ‘unenlightened’. So we must marshall our arguments and prove that we have no such fear, and ensure that whenever we debate, we win, or at least land some serious punches. A few heads above the parapet, and more will follow.

These people also have to learn that they’re not the only ones with intellect. They assume that the right are boneheads.

I’m trying to have a friendship with a sister in law who is a man-hating Christianity-hating, muslim-loving Greens activist.
Recently she told me quite seriously that the PM was in politics to destroy the lives of the vulnerable. No concept of disagreement between reasonable people of goodwill !
I pointed out that most politicians are concerned with ideas about the public good & often disagree on the means. She was so shocked, I don’t think she’d ever heard such a thing before. I got the impression her views are pretty much the rule in the therapeutic public service.
🙂

I just lost my young sister to breast cancer – just after her thirtieth.
She was very different to me, and we hadn’t been that close. During the years of her illness we grew closer as women and sisters than I could have believed possible & I now value other family members with equally little in common as a result of our shared loss and realisation of the radical contingency of life.
How might you feel if your sister were terminal? As I come to the close of my homily I have to concede that mine didn’t have the irritating characteristics you describe above 🙂

Risible. Hilarious! They why are people from the left like you so covetous???

You should be on the Comedy Channel. Watch the punctuation instead – that’ll be more helpful in the long run.

You know it makes sense.

She is much more articulate than you Billy boy. Quit while you’re….behind. (Aren’t there some exciting apps you can amuse yourself with?)

You would have to be the most delusional person on earth to deny the obviois truth that its the right who are obsessed with status and profit. The leftist ideal seeks to remove those motivations

And to remove much else as well. Including the freedom to think and articulate differently.

Agreed, the left have always come a cropper when they try to impose a false sense of ‘equality’ which just crushes the human spirit. Venezuela being just one of the latest cases in point. How many times do we have to go through this before it becomes blindingly obvious to even the most die hard lefty zealot?

Cool nonsense, fact free rambling followed by “read history” when your moronic post had exactly zero history, jesus youre stupid

But Blair and Brown are both on the Right. Blair was the most right-wing prime minister since the Second World War, so what are you talking about?

Blair still implemented more Labour policy in a month than most Labour leaders have in a political career.

That has to be accepted as well.

Follow path of number of people @ who are earning profit monthly by doing an online jobs… Get informed more on my Disqus

And don’t forget the American Left’s current love of Hillary Clinton whom founded a “non-profit’ which only used 9% of its contributions for charitable purposes and half of that 9% was spent on parties in NYC and Hollywood to smooze with other self-righteous progressive glitterati.

Or that the great Marxist messiah, Barack Obama, never gave more than .01% of his salary to any charitable organization but was able to purchase a million dollar home in toney Hyde Park on a state senator salary…..he was surrounded in Hyde Park by his fellow leftist activists whom had made millions off of running “non-profits’ using federal tax grants to supposedly to help southside Chicago.

The one thing that Obama ever ran was the Annanberg Foundation which lasted less than 13 months because nobody could account for where the 187 MILLION dollars actually went …the auditors in the end gave up and could only conclude that NONE ever made it to any children….

It was the Chicago Annenberg Challenge, not the Foundation itself, which Obama diid run, for 4 years. He worked with unrepentant Weather Underground terrorist, Bill Ayers.

This is often true, but on the right there is more honesty about it. Leftism is dominant Now – do you think Zuckerberg, Jobs or Cook are not neocons? they dont pay tax, they wear tshirts but send the lawyers in pinstripe suits. Its the wolves in sheeps clothing you’ve got to worry about.

And risking their capital to provide you with jobs, bank loans and the consumer goods you wear, eat and use every single day of the week. Where do you think these came from? Out of the clouds?

Somebody risked his or her capital so that you could have the pleasure of owning them – when it could have gone pear-shaped (and very often does) and they could have lost a very great deal of money.

I’m trying to explain to the ignorant how real capitalism works.

Nobody more inadequate than you at critical thought

You sound like a National Treasure to me!!!

We all need to laugh more (at lefties!).

well if it isn’t, try a counter argument instead throwing buzzwords around

It is not ‘leftism’ to repel a foreign invasion. It’s admirable, bearing in mind the respective sizes of the nations.

Sort yourself out!

No, I don’t find the Nazis admirable. What an odd idea. UK and USA were fighting Nazis.

It only extends to regimes that I think should be repelled, such as when USA invaded Cuba.

That was an admirable action, too! You lot are so weird.

How do you explain the RIGHT wingers throwing abuse at me instead of arguing my posts?

Maybe you’d like to reassess part of your post?

If you’re just focusing on his use of the word bigot that is a different matter.

However, I have been verbally abused in place of a reasoned counter-argument by a righty, so insults in place of debate is not a tactic monopolized by the left.

That American won’t appreciate you calling him a leftie.
‘Leftie’ is a dirty word in the States.

The left are “more likely” to resort to assumptions, ad hominem attacks etc?

Read all the articles during Corbyns campaign and read the replies I received from the right wingers.

Bile, abuse, inaccurate assumptions and outright lies have been par for the course from those on the right.

‘This week’s factoid is that the drummer out of ZZ Top is called Frank Beard but he is the one who doesn’t have a beard’ – Steve Wright (in the afternoon).