Rod Liddle

Why don’t the French bomb Belgium?

As a Muslim cleric has to deny saying it’s OK to eat your wife, the BBC and the liberal establishment just cringe with appalling liberal bias

28 November 2015

9:00 AM

28 November 2015

9:00 AM

I am always open to spiritual guidance from any quarter, all the more so if that guidance is of practical import. So I was especially grateful to hear reports of a fatwa from the prominent Saudi Arabian cleric, Abdul Aziz bin Abdullah. This fatwa apparently made it clear that it was perfectly permissible for me, if suffering from ‘severe hunger’, to eat my wife. Either eat all of her — or merely, as it helpfully elucidated, some of her ‘body parts’. It did not say which body parts. In lieu of further enlightenment, I assumed that all of them were up for grabs.

Anyway, many has been the time that I have rooted through the fridge for something to stave off a ravenous hunger and found nothing but those tiny yoghurts that women eat to assuage constipation. I have stamped around and cursed, not understanding that the answer to my problem was sitting a few yards away in the living room, watching a re-run of Wolf Hall. Some, perhaps including the renowned Quranic scholar David Cameron, will no doubt say that such a fatwa (which Abdul insisted was a fabrication) would exemplify a ‘perverted’ view of Islam. Perhaps. But might it actually be rather moderate in stipulating that this recourse is available only to men suffering ‘severe hunger’? There may be other Muslim clerics who would argue that we should eat our wives even if we feel only a little peckish, or have got the ‘munchies’. The disputed fatwa, by the way, was said to reinforce the thesis that wives should be obedient to their husbands and that eating them was merely another way that ‘2 become 1’, as the Spice Girls once had it.

It may well be that when you first heard of the barbarous Islamist atrocities in Paris you thought: ‘My God. My God. How could they do that? At least now maybe the scales will fall from some eyes and we will tackle the problem head on.’ And then, like me, having thought this, you will have watched a BBC news programme and very quickly realised — nope, not a chance, business as usual. The same delusional rubbish, the same gerrymandering of public opinion, the same absurdities. My anti-epiphany began with Kirsty Wark on Newsnight interviewing two women, one of whom said that the problem was France’s racist society and the other, a French-Algerian, who opined that it first looked like the attacks could have been caused by rival drug gangs. I stared at the screen, mouth agape, unable for a while to believe what I was hearing. A whole programme about the Paris attacks in which three words — Muslim, Islam, jihadi — were not used at any point. The desperation to exculpate the ideology was present long before the bodies had been carried away. Then, when it was revealed that some attackers had entered the country as refugees, the Today programme had a fair, balanced and unpartisan debate between three people who agreed that we should take more refugees, because getting tough is ‘what they (the nasty terrorists) want us to do’. Even before the attacks the majority of British people wanted fewer migrants to be allowed in and a bit more rigour at the checkpoints — but that view was not remotely reflected. With the exception of a rather fine piece by John Sweeney on Panorama, the BBC’s coverage throughout was appalling in its cringeing, politically correct, liberal bias.


Meanwhile, the Home Secretary was telling us that the terrorists represent a ‘perverted’ form of Islam. Hmm. The same perverted form of the religion as practised by Abdul’s home country, Saudi Arabia? Or in Iran, or Libya, or Palestine, or Somalia, or . . . the list of countries which kill apostates, persecute Christians, Jews, homosexuals and women is longish, you have to say. We must grasp that the proportion of Muslims worldwide who hold this ‘perverted’ view is far, far, higher than Mrs May or the BBC would like you to think. Some 27 per cent of British Muslims, for example, expressed sympathy with the Charlie Hebdo murderers. This week it was reported that one in five British Muslims sympathises with Islamic State fighters. That is a number which is, as John Major might put it, not inconsiderable.

And the weird canards and the non-sequiturs. I have lost count of the number of times I have heard politicians express worry about British Muslims going to Syria and coming home ‘radicalised’. No. They were radicalised before they went. That is why they went there. In any case, we always let them back in when they arrive home after a spot of decapitating, instead of confiscating their passports and telling them to clear off.

The point, though, is that Syria facilitates the delusion that these attacks are imposed upon us all by an isolated external agency, when this is not remotely the case. Bombing the Islamic State, which was François Hollande’s response, will not help. It is another means of evading the issue, the real crux of the matter. He would be better off bombing Belgium, where the terrorists lived, or the Paris suburbs — or Manningham, near Leeds, where a few days after the murders a man who had converted from Islam to Christianity was repeatedly stabbed in the street after years of harrassment by adherents of the Religion of Peace. These people are among us and they have been among us for a very long time indeed. Syria may be a magnet for them — in which case, let them be drawn to it! — but please do not kid ourselves that without the Islamic State these atrocities would not have happened. There was no Isis involvement in 9/11, or the London bombings, or the Charlie Hebdo attacks — or any other of the multifarious acts of murder and mayhem perpetrated by Islamists from Kenya to Nigeria to Mali to Israel to Spain to Denmark to oh . . . countless other venues.

And the refugees, the migrants? Keep them out. Tighten the EU borders and keep them out. They wouldn’t like it here — it’s still a godless, infidel democracy, just about.

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Show comments
  • David Magna

    Don’t forget Bangladesh, Rod. It’s also a wonderful exponent of the Religion of Peace – having no connection as yet to IS – that sadly has to jostle for media coverage (and largely fails to get it).

    • Mark

      David, don’t forget the influence of the deobandis in Bangladesh and Pakistan and in their respective diaspora communities, including the U.K.

  • Jack_H

    And the gulf is growing,with each successive generation becoming more Islamic and less likely to integrate.The Poor man who converted to Christianity suffering such an attack is so depressing……..nothing will be done,Police will look away.

    • justejudexultionis

      The treatment of that convert to Christianity by the authorities is poor evil. Islam is destroying our culture and the rule of law in this country.

  • Mow_the_Grass

    Sometimes laughter is the best medicine – in this case against a barbaric death cult masquarading as a religion ie the RoP.
    Thank you Mr Liddle – you made my day.
    Is there no limit to the extent of the depravity in Islam
    If they’re not busy chopping off body parts – they can now also chew them off – starting with one of their less favourite wives ie anyone out of her teens.
    Most societies evolve – not so with the Muslim.
    Returning to the 7th C – is the aim.
    Aloha Snackbar!

  • Damaris Tighe

    I’m sick of reading about ‘radicalisation’ & you fall into the trap, Rod. The word makes it sound as if the poor dears caught a bout of flu & are therefore victims with no agency. Jihadis & proto-jihadis make ideological choices that enable their inner psychopath. They’re not passive in the process & should be treated as pariahs, not ‘de-radicalised’ as if what they deserve is an inoculation.

    • MikeF

      I think Rod effectively says that Damaris. The problem is that trying to make sense of what the ‘liberal-left’ say can end up sounding just as nonsensical. Don’t let it get to you.

    • Hippograd

      Agreed. The UK needs some sane people in power. This is the kind of thinking we need to see:

      A day after opposition leader Isaac Herzog called on the government to take in Syrian refugees, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu went South to launch construction of the next section of a multibillion shekel security fence along the border with Jordan aimed at preventing infiltration from the east.

      Since returning to power in 2009, Netanyahu oversaw the construction of a similar fence from Kerem Shalom to Eilat along the Sinai border, as well as an enhanced security fence on the Golan Heights. “We are beginning today the construction of a security fence on our eastern border, as a continuation of the security fence that we built on the border with Egypt, and which will join up in the end with the security fence that we built on the Golan Heights,” he said, accompanied by Defense Minister Moshe Ya’alon and Transportation and Intelligence Minister Israel Katz.

      Netanyahu said the world today is witnessing what happens when countries lose control of their borders. He said the combination of brutal terrorism, which is spreading along Israel’s borders, as well as illegal migrant workers makes it imperative for Israel to have control over all of its borders. Weach out and hug the world, People!

  • Damaris Tighe

    Ah yes, I’ve seen that quite a few times. As if accidents are of more concern than deliberate maiming & killing of people going about their everyday business. As if, because there are more road traffic deaths than deaths from terrorism, we can relax knowing that the murderers in our midst are more likely to kill someone else. Toynbee has completely lost her moral compass (if she ever had one).

    • Flintshire Ian

      Road traffic deaths aren’t usually “accidents”, Damaris. They are generally caused by wilfully reckless, indeed homicidal behaviour on the part of one or more drivers.

      • DennisHorne

        However you wish to describe the driving or the crash, the death is accidental as opposed to deliberate. In, I would say, 99.999999% cases.

        But hey, who am I to knock you off your tangent and send you round in circles?

        • Flintshire Ian

          The incident that caused the death is seldom an accidental happening even if the intent was not actually to kill. Usually as a consequence of insane overtaking or poor vehicle maintenence or drink driving etc, rather than just excessive speed on its own. Even the Police now generally refer to “incidents” rather than “accidents” for that very reason.
          At a tangent to the main thread perhaps, but not to Damaris’ comment.

          • DennisHorne

            Thanks. If the police call interactions where there is damage or injury ‘incidents’ they’re ignorant. There is a distinction and it is made by, for example, the CAA. If you want a neutral word, it’s ‘crash’.

          • Mr B J Mann

            Actually, it’s worse than that:

            They call them collisions:

            Which is the impact between two moving objects:

            So by definition crashing into a tree can’t be a Road Traffic Collision!!!

          • blandings

            “even if the intent was not actually to kill.”

            Exactly, the intent to kill was not present.
            Suicide bombers do intend to kill, don’t they?
            It is amusing to watch faux lefties tie logic into knots in a desperate attempt to deny what is staring them in the face.
            Stay with The Guardian, Ian – it’s your safe space.

          • Mr B J Mann

            So how do you describe the incidence of a death of a pedestrian hit by a cyclist?!

        • Mary Ann

          Overtaking on a bend is not an accident, it is wilful recklessness.

          • DennisHorne

            Don’t schools teach Comprehension? Is the purpose of overtaking on a bend to overtake or to kill innocent people?

            As an aside, drivers do make mistakes. I know of one case a woman came up to a junction and ran into a dozen cyclists; killed several. Recently in NZ a visiting American turned a campervan in front of a heavy lorry and killed his wife and their friends.

            Accident. Error. Whatever. They didn’t set out to kill people.

            So, what is the purpose of a suicide bomber, do you think?

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            But few people would do it to intentionally kill someone now would they?

          • Mr B J Mann

            As is shooting through red traffic lights, the wrong way up one ways, over crossings, off pavements, and all the other Kamikaze tricks cyclists get up to:

            Especially “undertaking”.

            You’d have thought the name would have given them a clue!

            You tell those cyclists, Mary Ann!!!

        • Mr B J Mann

          Mind you don’t knock him off his tandem while he’s going round in circles in a mass cycle “protest”……..

          Gridlocking a town near you!

      • Mr B J Mann

        Oooooooohhhhhhhh, yes:

        Every time the death of an innocent pedestrian is caused by wilfully reckless, indeed h0micidal behaviour on the part of one or more inconsiderate selfish, rude, antisocial, s0ciopathic, speeding, dangerous drivers in their hard, solid, planet destroying, one to forty ton k!lling machines I think……..

        The PC brigade will blame it on the evil speedophile motorist.

        But the funny thing is: per mile ridden, the number of pedestrians killed by cyclists is in the same ball park as the number of pedestrians who die in collisions with motor vehicles per mile driven.

        So considering the cyclist has nothing more lethal at his disposal than a light, slow, cuddly, green, environmentally friendly, planet saving, toy:

        Just how much thought, planning, and deliberate evil h0micidal intent must cyclits put into THEIR “incidents” to make their toys as lethal as one to forty ton k!lling machines driven by speeding h0micidal man!acs?!?!?!!!!

    • E.I.Cronin

      Someone wrote a very handy shortlist of standard pc evasions with quick and easy ripostes, unfortunately I can’t recall the thread!. Toynbee sounds like so many in the media whose moral compass is permanently bent towards a new true north – Mecca.

  • sebastian2

    They act like intimidated and battered wives who grasp at any straw, however slender, to excuse or conceal the husband’s brutish behaviour.

    Liberals’ grip on total fantasy is very tenacious. Meanwhile, the rest of us have to see things as they are. This, of course, means ignoring the BBC whose world view is narrow and intolerantly monocultural (ie compulsory left/liberal multicultural at any licence-fee price). So forget the BBC.

    If you want to see the real mohammedism – contrary to what RoP jockeys will present you with – then examine some of the islamic states, and the doctrine itself. Not much of a pretty sight. Not much of a pretty read.

    Religion of peace? No way. Religion of total confusion, contradiction, selective plagiarism and improbability with a generous slice of savagery, conquest, forced conversion, and general iron bigotry? That’s more like it. It really is.

    • Shazza

      The BBC is an outstanding example of the successful implementation of Marxist language manipulation. ISIS is referred to as ‘so called’ Islamic State thereby questioning its islamic status, emphasis on islamofauxbia as a reason for the ‘victimhood’ status of their preferred minority, etc.

      So, I recommend that we all should follow our ‘so called’ national broadcaster’s example and in future refer to ‘so called’ prophet, ‘so called’ moderate muslims, ‘so called’ far right extremists, ‘so called’ xenophobes/racists/etc.

      • Swarm of Drones

        They are referred to as that because the Real Islamic State (this is brand new hot off the street talk, Shaz) has its headquarters in Saudi Arabia.

        Mecca ≠ Raqqa

        But you never mind that one, it’s to complicated I know.
        I have three questions for you, they might not sound all that new:

        1. How do you manage to obscure your profile listing on disqus lists.
        2. Who are the right wing fascists that follow you.
        3. Why do these right wing fascists follow you.

        • sebastian2

          You are correct about Riyadh. These wahabbist mischief-makers have much to be held accountable for. An irony then, that the Saudis have built a fence between themselves and ISIS territory – to keep ISIS and potential refugees entirely out. They are terrified of ISIS but, both being Sunni mohammedans, Saudi is unwilling openly to wage war against them. They are probably even paying them Danegeld. It gets even more complicated than that actually, but I won’t bore you with the extra complexities but the Sauds have their wahabbist fingers in several pies. There’s a similar Saudi fence, by the way, between themselves and Yemen where the Saudis are engaged in a prolonged conflict – but the targets there are the detested Shia.

        • blandings

          “How do you manage to obscure your profile listing on disqus lists”
          By being smarter than you – obviously.

          • Swarm of Drones

            I was smart enough to point it out, Einstein.

      • sebastian2

        I’d be interested in their reaction. A taste of their own medicine. Certainly, it’s completely implausible to disassociate ISIS from mohammedism. There’s noting “so called” about this mohammedan embryonic caliphate. The BBC and others are trying to re-invent and make respectable a creed/cult/ideology that at best is contradictory and generally open to question and doubt; and at worst, completely repellent.

        In the meantime, those who politely point all this out are scolded and insulted.

      • E.I.Cronin

        I love it Shazza!. Yes we can all start turning the tables. ‘The alleged progressives’… ‘The so-called social justice campaigner’… or one of my favourites: ‘controversial’.
        Will start referring to ‘controversial Multicultural militant’ and ‘extremist refugee advocates’.

      • Mr B J Mann

        But should striking trades unionists now be called terrorists as the Beeb has swapped their use of militants to activists who terrify the public by blowing them up?!?!?!!!!

  • Clive

    I think BBC News and Current Affairs should be sold off, possibly to Murdoch to be burnt. I find the BBC’s claims of ‘balance’ nauseating and their abuse of their power – because the general public believes them unbiased – practically criminal. Especially since it involves spending publicly gathered money some of which was mine.

    Still, a central point in this piece is cobblers, because the opinion polls are pretty useless unless you know the question.

    …Some 27 per cent of British Muslims, for example, expressed sympathy with the Charlie Hebdo murderers. This week it was reported that one in five British Muslims sympathises with Islamic State fighters. That is a number which is, as John Major might put it, not inconsiderable….

    As Isabel Hardman points out elsewhere, 1 in 6 non-Muslims also expressed sympathy with young British men going to fight in Syria. The problem is in the question asked.

    I just do not believe that yer average Muslim wants to kill me. Especially since I’ve worked with many Muslims in IT and they did not want to kill me. One of those blokes was very religious. He sent around an email asking everyone in the branch we worked in to an Eid celebration. Don’t ask me which Eid, I don’t know. I didn’t go. I’m anti-social. I do know that nobody died at the Eid celebration, they all showed up at work again.

    Maybe they were just lucky.

    • Mary Ann

      You should be careful what you believe, that survey about IS was deliberately worded to get a controversial result, there have been many complaints about it and anyone who is capable of seeing the other side of the coin could have given the ‘wrong’ answer. IPOS refused to do it. I can understand why some people would join IS, if you are bullied at school because you are a Muslim and then can’t get an interview for a job because you have a Muslim name and if you have slightly psychopathic tendencies Daesh could seem very tempting.

      • wudyermucuss

        There have been many surveys and they all give the same horrifying results.
        You remain in denial,we won’t.

        • Clive

          We remain in denial since you’re into groupthink

          I note you did not cite the ‘many surveys’ or, above all, the questions they asked.

          I believe the Muslim community should do more to repudiate Daesh but part of their problem is that they are not well reported when they do. Did you know there are several fatwas against Daesh, for instance ?

          • wudyermucuss

            You speak for yourself,do not use we.
            The many surveys,no ” ” necessary,are widely available,from many sources,quite consistent,and in line with Islamic doctrine.
            Significant numbers of Muslims are our enemy,they are quite clear about it.

          • Clive

            You used ‘we’ first – who are you speaking for ?

          • wudyermucuss

            You used we first.
            I speak for myself,obviously.

          • wudyermucuss

            You used we first.
            I am a freethinker and speak for myself.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            Tell you what. Would it not be easier all round if we first identified and openly named the enemy. Islamism!
            Then you can take action.
            All moderates who could not possibly support Islamism then have the power to speak out and ostracise and marginalize anyone subscribing to that evil ideology.
            A little like how the lefty progressive darlings howl and shriek at the mere insinuation that Islam could be involved

          • hobspawn

            The enemy is not ‘islamism’, it is islam. The Quran commands the violence. Some children of so-called ‘moderate’ muslims will always have a tendency to violence, simply because they are brought up to believe in the pro-violent book of Allah. There are no moderate muslims. The book forbids it.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            Let’s start small.

          • hobspawn

            You can not start at all until you have identified your enemy and are prepared to say his name.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            I did. Islamists.

          • hobspawn

            So that includes the BBC, the Labour party, the Tories, the EU and the US president?

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            Start with the extremist Muslims and if the leftard westerners get caught up in it mores the pity.

          • hobspawn

            But the leftards are in charge. They decide. Look at Camoron. The ethnic British are finished.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            That’s the plan. Civil war is the eventuality.

          • PaD

            maybe there are fatwahs.. but until we see the radical hate preacher immans physically dragged out of their mosues by ‘moderate’ moslems and handed straight over to the authorities….?

        • Mary Ann

          Have you actually read the way the questions were written and thought about the way they were interpreted for the headline.

          • wudyermucuss

            Yes,I have read many of the polls.
            They tell the same story as indeed does Islam.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            The answer should have been no, whatever was asked.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            Do you think they are sympathizing with people whose ‘holiday’ to Syria has been ruined?

            What normal balanced person leaves wife and kids at home to travel to a war zone. And what are they going there to do?

            Before you say humanitarian aid, it’s funny how they come back with military training and knowledge of weaponry.

          • Suzy61

            The worst take their wives and children with them.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            Indeed. It must be some form of mental illness.
            Still they do have a narrow gene pool. It’s hardly surprising.

          • hobspawn

            It is not mental illness. It has been proliferating successfully for 1400 years. If you wish to see it defeated, you will have to come up with something better than sarcasm.

          • wudyermucuss

            There have been many surveys and they give the same results.
            There is an arrest every day of Islamists planning operations and 7 serious plots foiled recently.
            You obsess over semantics if you must.

          • hobspawn

            Have you actually read the way the suras were written and thought about how they can only be interpreted as in favour of beheadings?

      • Tony

        Why do you call it Daesh?

        • Clive

          http://www.ibtimes.com/isil-isis-islamic-state-daesh-whats-difference-2187131

          Islamic State: This is the English version of what the terror group calls itself. It also claims to be a caliphate, which is a state ruled by a caliph, which is Arabic for “successor,” meaning successor to the Islamic Prophet Muhammad. The last generally acknowledged Muslim caliphate was the Ottoman Empire, which ended in 1923. Many governments and media refuse to use this name because it gives the group legitimacy as a state and a representative of Islam.

          ISIS: The militant group, which began as the Iraqi branch of al Qaeda during the U.S. occupation, gained this name after it invaded Syria in 2013. ISIS is short for “Islamic State in Iraq and Syria,” or “Islamic State of Iraq and al-Sham,” which is an old Arabic term for the area.

          ISIL: ISIL translates to “Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant.” The Levant is a geographical term that refers to the eastern shore of the Mediterranean — Syria, Lebanon, Palestine, Israel and Jordan. It’s the term the U.S. government uses since the “Levant” is apparently a better translation for al-Sham, the Arabic name for the region.

          Daesh: This is a term the militant group hates. French President François Hollande has used it since the attacks Friday, and first used it in September 2014. It’s an Arabic acronym for “al-Dawla al-Islamiya fi al-Iraq wa al-Sham.” It can sometimes be spelled DAIISH, Da’esh or Daech, a popular French version. The hacktivist group Anonymous and President Barack Obama have used the term since the deadly terrorist attacks in Paris.

          Thanks to Arabic wordplay, it could also be an insult. “Depending on how it is conjugated in Arabic, it can mean anything from ‘to trample down and crush’ to ‘a bigot who imposes his view on others,'” Boston Globe writer Zeba Khan reported in October 2014. ISIS threatened “to cut the tongue of anyone who publicly used the acronym Daesh, instead of referring to the group by its full name,” the Associated Press wrote in September 2014.

        • Mary Ann

          Because they don’t like it, it’s what the French are calling it now. It is the initials of their name in arabic, but strung together it is derogatory.

          • Baron

            They, the head cutters, don’t like being called Dash, we should stop, it’s derogatory.

            Listen, Mary Ann, you are sure you were not released too early?

      • Clive

        I hope that doesn’t mean you think I believed that survey by The Sun, because I didn’t.

      • LittleRedRidingHood

        If you are bullied at school you are likely to join Isis ???
        Astonishing acrobatics you are doing there to explain away why supposedly peaceful, educated people want to join a religious murder gang.

      • Nick

        I have applied for lots of jobs and not got interviews. I concluded that I wasn’t what they were looking for. Not that I had been refused an interview because of my name. Incidentally, if a candidate has slightly psychopathic tendencies then I don’t blame an employer for not wanting to interview them.
        And incidentally there are lots of schools in the UK now where non-Muslims are in a minority. I don’t doubt that they, too, get bullied for being different. Butt they don’t blow themselves up. Or are Muslims incapable of bullying?

      • PaD

        your kidding..honestly your kidding..right? it’s satire?

      • Kennybhoy

        Regarding the wording of this and other surveys I hear you. For the rest of your post..wot PaD wrote… 🙁

    • monsieur_charlie

      I suppose there are more people they haven’t tried to kill than those they have. So, I suppose it must have been just bad luck for those on the tube or the bus or just walking down the street.

    • Alexsandr

      where does your friends zakat go? does he know or just puts up with the direct debit and asks no questions?

  • amicus

    Gosh! It’s good to see Rod Liddle back! In a sea of PC garbage he is an island of common sense.

    • greencoat

      It is good indeed.
      All hail to Righteous Rod, even if he is a Rangers fan.

      • blandings

        Naah!
        He’s West Ham like me.
        Ask him.

        • David S

          Millwall.

          • blandings

            I know.
            He thinks The Hammers are insufferably glamorous.

    • flipkipper

      Back from what?

      • blandings

        From being absent.
        Try and engage brain cell.

    • realfish

      I wonder when his former employers will have Rod along to offer his perspective?

      Toady? Newsnight – the awful, dying dross that is now Newsnight?. He might perk the place up a bit – it’s become awfully boring watching the illiberal liberal elite talking to each other and convincing themselves just how righteous and intelligent they are..

  • amicus

    I hope Polly is a careful driver. We’d hate to lose her.

    • sebastian2

      You can choose to leave your car at home or to stop driving altogether. You can cycle. You cannot, however, leave your mohammedism at home or change your beliefs. Become a Rastafarian.

      It’s not just a matter of death rates. It’s a matter of ideology or purpose and how it drives you – which you may have no choice over. At all.

  • wudyermucuss

    Lots of road accidents in Israel.
    The drivers always seem to be Arabs and the victims Jews.
    Same with random knife insertions.

  • Tamerlane

    Fresh air.

  • These people are among us and they have been among us for a very long time indeed

    And most of Europe’s politicians (and church leaders, somewhat worryingly) are determined that Muslims should remain among us so that Europe falls to Islam by virtue of a higher birth rate. Keeping out ‘the refugees, the migrants’ will not prevent the inevitable triumph of Islam, only delay it. If we wish to prevent the triumph, we shall have to think the—so far—unthinkable and reduce Europe’s Muslim population by repatriation.

    • Clive

      Personally, I don’t have a problem with repatriation. I don’t see it as being inhumane if you give financial assistance to people who want to go somewhere else anyway. There are, however, practical difficulties.

      For instance, if the person being repatriated has British nationality – which a majority would have – they can always return. You cannot make a law which prevents it. All you could do is say that they would have to pay back their repatriation money on return.

      For people with dual nationality – if you perceive them as a threat, you can deprive them of their British nationality and deport them anyway.

      • @ Clive—My guess is that, as the Muslim population increases, the practical difficulties will be overcome. Jean Raspail, author of the prophetic novel The Camp of the Saints, said earlier this year, ‘We shall have to harden our hearts and suppress any compassion. Otherwise, our countries will be submerged.’ (Il faudra se durcir le cœur et supprimer en soi toute sorte de compassion. Sinon quoi, nos pays seront submergés.) The sooner we harden our hearts, the better.

      • PaD

        mmm change the law?

    • hepworth

      “unthinkable”?
      Not for me, I think it daily.

  • CheshireRed

    Absolutely correct. On the Saturday morning BBC 5 Live went from 6 am (I wake early) through to beyond noon with not one single mention of the words you state. They were paranoid and avoided saying what was blindingly obvious throughout. At one point they had to announce ‘A group calling itself Islamic State has allegedly claimed responsibility’. They then proceeded to wonder if that claim was legitimate or ‘a fake claim from someone pretending to be IS’.
    Pathetic and disgraceful all rolled into one.
    PS They also rolled out a middle-eastern named female announcer all morning. Feel that inclusiveness.

  • edithgrove

    “with Kirsty Wark on Newsnight interviewing two women, one of whom said that the problem was France’s racist society”, this was indeed absolutely and staggeringly the BBC’s first comment on the bombings, a woman saying (quite dishonestly) that you only see white faces in the centre of Paris. Another BBC lie is about the low quality of immigrant housing in France, it isn’t low quality and is certainly up to anything offered (though not to me) in the UK.

    • mohdanga

      “…a woman saying (quite dishonestly) that you only see white faces in the centre of Paris.” I find statements like this quite astounding and insulting. Being that Western Europe was settled and built by whites over the last couple of thousand years, it would be natural that whites make up the majority of the population, and, it would not be unnatural that it would be 100% of the population.
      The idea that the West must be totally subsumed by non-whites in order to somehow assuage our ‘colonial’ and ‘imperial’ past has been the left’s mantra for the past 40 years. Why don’t they suggest that Japan open its doors to millions of whites as penance for Japan’s imperialist sins of the 1930s and 40s? If you went to Riyadh and found that 50% of the population was white European you would find it odd….yet we in the West are the only ones who need to subscribe to multiethnic swamping.

  • Jannerman

    Damn Rod Liddle and his writings. I’m not supposed to like and agree with Socialists.

    • justejudexultionis

      Liddle is very much Blue Labour.

  • Mary Ann

    I think she is right, you get killed in an RTA and the media pay little or no attention, get killed when you crash your private plane and it gets on the national news or two or three days, get killed in a train crash and it is on the news for weeks and week and again years later, QED, travelling by car is safer. We all know that isn’t true but do you know anyone who is scared to travel in a car, do you know anyone who is scared of flying?

    • Cyril Sneer

      “I think she is right, you get killed in an RTA and the media pay little or no attention”

      Because the news would be full of RTA deaths and somewhere buried in all those individual deaths that nobody cares about there will a quick mention of 130 people killed in a terrorist attack.

      Lefty thinking wonders why European people would be more interested in a terrorist attack in Europe then in Africa.

  • Robert the Devil

    “Even before the (Paris) attacks the British people wanted fewer migrants to be allowed in….” Well, the government has certainly been listening because today’s immigration figures show yet another net gain in the influx of those coming into our country. Just when is this madness going to end?

    • MikeF

      When enough people vote UKIP.

  • justejudexultionis

    How dare Rod Liddle speak the truth!

  • Baron

    Superb, young Liddle, but then it’s what one would expect from one of the few genuine journalists left, but for one small point.

    How could any of the political pigeons embrace what’s bleeding obvious to virtually all when the West’s Commander in Chief is an Honorary Muslim? Haven’t you noticed yet that what he says goes, and he says Islam it isn’t?

    Someone once quipped that science moves forward with the death of old scientists, whilst they’re breathing the ones who have better answers have no choice. Sadly, the same can hardly be said of politics. When the current lot’s gone, it’ll be too late.

    • Quest for Liberty

      I’m not being hostile but could you show me evidence that Obama (who I assume you meant) is a Muslim?

      • Baron

        His farther was Muslim, part of his primary education was Islamic (some claim most of it); for him, the best music is not Allegri’s Miserere, one of Bach’s two Passions, one of Mozart 60 sacred pieces, but the morning call to prayer; if “the ‘future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam” (his words) whom should it belong to? And above all google ‘obama bowing to saudi king’. Should the leader of the free, secular, democratic West submit in this humbling manner to the worst despot around?

        One could hardly blame him for his faith, most of us believe in something, but as hints go, is it enough for you, Quest, or will you wait until his presidency’s over, he converts to Islam and, holding hands with the recent convert to Christianity Tony Blair, the pair go save the world?

        • UnionJihack

          That would be so lovely.

        • Mr B J Mann

          What’s really disturbing is that though he’s caught on camera supposedly “bowing” to various people, generally it’s just a pronounced nod type bow (sometimes he might even be bobbing his head tear someone better), including to the Queen, except when it comes to the Saudi King when his head goes down to his, errmmm, waist level.
          And then there’s another video of him “not bowing” to the Saudi King, because lowering his head to have some decoration put over his head doesn’t count.
          But at the beginning of the video Obama is seen descending the aircraft’s steps while the King walks towards them:
          But just at the point where they would greet each other, the video skips forward to them walking away from the aircraft:
          So what’s been cut?!

  • The Elderking

    What on earth could be behind all this violence?

    https://youtu.be/w_38ge5SKHs

    • BARROSO

      brilliant

  • MikeF

    Well The Guardian is a bit of a car crash these days.

  • UnionJihack

    Predictable child babble since we have already been confronted with the NTDWI scribblings of the usual pork meat rejecting American hard right who have retreated in great haste from the sheer logical shock conclusion of their own innate, high in sputum verbal diarrhea, culminating in the simple question as to why the half-hearted part-time keyboard warriors aren’t yet bombing Mecca then.

    Go and do something useful, campaign to shut one of these horrible coal-fired power stations down early or something like that. You need to do that to get Brownie points as knighthoods for journos no longer come by post which is now privatised. Allez les bleus.

    • Dogsnob

      Best take that trampoline back to Argos eh?

    • David S

      Are you using random insult generating software or are you trying to say something?

    • TheJustCity

      Talk about ‘high-in-sputum verbal diarrhea’! And you would know about ‘child babble’ since the do-gooding infantilisation of your culture by the liberal-left is – for once – patently apt; it constituting a depraved morally irresponsible landscape where the adults conduct themselves like spoilt, self- (and other) eviscerating children – both silly and sinister. Now don’t go sewing your mouth up!

      • UnionJihack

        That’s a nice little concoction to leave on this forum don’t you think?

        Months of NTDWI agitation from in-house piffle dealers repaid in one clean, well, dirty sweep. Rod will have to deal with it. Deal with it he will.

    • Hugh

      Hard to believe there are 25 real people who understood that, let alone agreed with it enough to uptick it.

  • jim

    GOD SAVE ROD LIDDLE !! You must speak for us Rod…

  • Ryan Midgley

    ‘…Manningham, near Leeds’?

    • uberwest

      The name of Brad***d is unspeakable, don’t you know anything?

      • Ryan Midgley

        I just thought my hometown, along with Luton and Tower Hamlets, were the goto places…and the unfortunate ‘Apostate’ was knee-capped with baseball bats, not sure if that is better or worse than being stabbed!

        • IainRMuir

          Just seen this. You beat me to it.

  • The_greyhound

    It’s November 1940.

    Both the BBC and the Home Secretary assure the nation that though Coventry is in flames. It’s Nothing To Do With Nazism. Leader of Opposition refuses to endorse counter-measures and angrily demands public enquiry into shooting down of German aircraft. Former deputy editor of Guardian Newspaper says people of West Midlands had it coming to them. German population of Finsbury Park demonstrate in support of German Chancellor. Police arrest dozens for singing anti-Nazi songs.

    It’s the way we have always dealt with these situations.

    • Guest 1

      You forgot the bit ‘government does not intern 27,000 enemy aliens on the off-chance they might be Nazis and fascists, and government also does not intern 1,200 British fascists’.

    • kuffir

      and Winston Churchill receives an “Extremist Banning and Disruption Order” from the Home Office.

    • greggf

      It was believe it was called then the Manchester Guardian…….an early start for Power House for Europe……

  • The_greyhound

    It’s November 1940.

    Both the BBC and the Home Secretary assure the nation that though Coventry is in flames. It’s Nothing To Do With Nazism. Leader of Opposition refuses to endorse counter-measures and angrily demands public enquiry into shooting down of German aircraft. Former deputy editor of Guardian Newspaper says people of West Midlands had it coming to them. German population of Finsbury Park demonstrate in support of German Chancellor. Police arrest dozens for singing anti-Nazi songs.

    It’s the way we have always dealt with these situations.

  • Dogsnob

    But you see Mr Liddle, this works.

    Simple as it is, the tactic of delay and suppression – even so blatant and repeated – serves to tide things over until the populace is back to work and has too little time to ponder such matters.
    Rolled us over 9/11, 7/7, Bali, etc etc.

    After all, if there really were a problem with a large and rapidly growing sector of our community, then Auntie Beeb would certainly tell us wouldn’t she?

    And the Bush Tucker trials are back to delight on the other side so lets all have a giggle together.

  • Murti Bing

    Unfortunately, the Today programme is at this all the time. The other day there was an item from a girls’ school in north London, where most of the girls are from a moslem background and wear a hijab to school. These girls talked about the prejudice they faced from people in the local community, all of whom were dismissed simply as stupid racists. At no point was there any consideration given to the possibility that, especially since the Paris attacks, these people might be simply afraid and have no better way of expressing their fear than to grumble a few snide remarks and cast the odd ‘black look’.

    But more worrying was the attitude of one of the teachers. Towards the end of the item, she expressed her ‘sincere belief’ that the recent terrorism was all based on a corrupted form of islam and had nothing to do with the true message of islam. And if this wasn’t bad enough, at no point was she pressed on what her idea of the true message of islam really was and how it might have been corrupted.

    As I listened to her drone on, I tried to remember the last time I heard a teacher in a comprehensive school stand up, on national radio, for the rights of Christian pupils. I couldn’t. I also wondered how it is that girls are allowed to wear the hijab to school at all – it being an item of clothing that supports and enforces the wholesale oppression of women in islamic societies.

    I think these are vital points that really should be addressed, but I wouldn’t expect the Toady programme to be doing that any time soon.

    • rtj1211

      Well, I guess if the teachers and girls at that school are truly peaceful, they don’t have brothers, cousins or whatever who are violent, then maybe the Islam they experience on a daily basis IS for them, the true message of Islam?

      What can they do about the CIA supplying arms to ISIS to undermine Assad? The Saudis and Qataris doing likewise? Turkey buying oil from ISIL??

      If you want hard questions asked about Islam, which is fine, you need to ask hard questions about who funds ISIL too. You will be frothing at the mouth if you have any principles…….

    • mohdanga

      Cherie Blair went to court to fight for their ‘right’ to wear the hijab..enough said.

  • Andrew Cole

    The BBc aren’t bothered about these issues. They divert away from it. They are more concerned with trying to get Corbyn out than they are in whether we will go to war again.

    They are more concerned with championing the success of multiculturism rather than address the issues of 2/3rds of new jobs going to non Brits.

    They are more interested in defending the relatively lavish lifestyles of those at the bottom (yes me) not just in comparison to many other areas of the world but also to our parents or their parents, that they say we are all in poverty…………with our big TVs………..and our cars……….and our mobiles………..and our (add more stuff our arents would have done without because you had to live within your means back then.)

    They are also intent on pushing the migrants being good for the economy issue without addressing the problem that more and more Brits are not able to get into work (or be made to work) and thus the welfare bill will go up and up and up………..sanctions? Which jobs are you going to force them to do?

    Saying that I love the BBC. No adverts and BBC Four is a great channel 🙂

    • Guest 1

      Absolutely spot on. Except the love for the BBC – you can get help with problems like that (joke).
      Well posted.

  • Robert the Devil

    As usual, Rod is correct; there is no point in bombing Syria. Our real concern should be the enemy within which comprises not only radicalised islamists, of whom there are many living in our midst, but also the despicable liberal intelligentsia who dominate both in the media and our educational establishments, including universities, colleges and schools. Until we address these matters, stop mass immigration, and close our borders, which means leaving the EU, we will continue to face serious threats to our safety.

  • The_greyhound

    Not sure I buy this stuff about radicalsation. If a man as ostensibly westernised and educated as Mehdi Hasan can get with his co-religionists and start shouting about white Britons as “cattle” then we must accept that that degree of hostility to our values and society is intrinsic to Islam, and universal amongst its adherents.

    Fundamental to the British notion of religious tolerance is the idea that we all conform to a shared set of social norms, and keep our confessional preferences within the home or religious meeting house. That approach simply isn’t compatible with mainstream Islam which always insists on the primacy of its values, customs and social attitudes. Britain already tolerates cruelty to animals and polygamy (both repugnant to our culture) merely to accommodate Moslems. Rod himself has written about places in Britain where islamic manners are being enforced on unwilling communities. That has to stop.

    Britain has to lay it on the line to Moslems: accept the primacy of our values (and implicitly reject a substantial amount of their imported baggage), or get out. There’s no middle way on this.

    • Andrew Cole

      The problem is that this country as well as many others can not ever take things for what they are.

      If someone does a job wrong it isn’t because they couldn’t do it. It is because they weren’t trained properly.

      If people decide to go rioting it isn’t because they have no sense of morals or decency, it is because they are disenfranchised.

      If people don’t go out to vote is because they feel disenfranchised with politics, not because they didn’t want to vote, not because they couldn’t be bothered to.

      If people get overweight it isn’t because they eat too much, make poor food choices and exercise too little, it is because they are at the bottom and can’t afford fresh food.

      If people choose chocolate, processed food and junk food it is because they can’t afford fresh food, not that they prefer junk food or can’t be bothered to make their own.

      Same issue here there are millions of racists in this country. The seeds have to be there to go from thinking it to then actually doing it. I would suggest there are more non white racists in Britain than there are whites.

      While society and government fund all these quangos and thinktanks that make money from beating around the bush on any issue that they can think of then we will continue to see this kind of apologist behaviour.

      Lots and lots of middle class activists, thinktanks, ‘experts’ and lobbyists that champion the rights of sectors of society as if they actually know what is going on and then media picking up on it and brainwashing people into some sense of entitlement to any sort of lifestyle.

      Start to deal with what happens not ignore it and look for excuses as to why it happened. Lets have a multi milion pound enquiry into the bleeding obvious while we’re at it.

      • The_greyhound

        We are all victims now. Unless we are white men who work.

      • rtj1211

        The test of someone’s competence is whether they can do the job properly once they have been trained properly. I experienced this learning the violin in the UK, then Austria. I had no more time with the Austrian teacher than with the UK ones, I practiced no harder that year than in the previous 3, but the quality of training was so superior that the outputs were transformed.

        What you mean is, you want people ready on Day 1 and don’t care who trains them.

        There is a price for that: you must pay whoever DID train them a coupon for having done so.

        Otherwise you are a benefit scrounger. The benefit being the trained worker who someone else trained.

        • Andrew Cole

          No I am saying that it was/is used as a standard buzzine when the fact of the matter is that while it can apply sometimes (as you express) often there are people incapable of doing the job that they are being trained to do whether it be to do with aptitude, speed stamina or anything else and that buzzline is still trotted out.

          My point was about apologists / excuses being used far too often instead of just tackling the obvious truth.

    • Callipygian

      There is no way that Britons of all people should ‘tolerate’ (i.e. accept and encourage) cruelty to animals. That should be illegal, no exceptions.

      • Alexsandr

        but people eat halal meat from the supermarket. probably cos they dont think and its cheap.

        baaaaa

      • Mr B J Mann

        Why, oh why, oh why do we ‘tolerate’ li.e. accept and encourage” this continual corruption and mis-appropriation of the English Language?!

        If the neighbours are making a racket, or there is a funny smell from the drains, or the council keep missing your bin:

        You might ‘tolerate’ it

        You might even at a pinch accept it.

        But the LAST thing you do is encourage it!!!

    • jennybloggs

      Yes but how will we make them ‘get out’. That is the nub is it not. They like it here, so long as they can bring their relatives and live by their own customs. They would put up a fight and I think we might not have the character to fight back, or have the support of our leaders.

    • mecha-rigsby

      No such thing as ‘radicalisation’. Note that the word didn’t even exist a few years ago.

      This notion that you can stick a young lad in the magic ‘radicalisation machine’, leave him in there for half an hour and he comes out a bloodthirsty lunatic is ludicrous.It’s been invented by the media and the political classes to paper over the real issue: Islam.

      • Mr B J Mann

        And, strangely considering it’s supposedly an ancient British value, note that the word “tolerate” didn’t even exist in its current usage a few years ago!

  • Callipygian

    What can one say at this point except that the obvious should not need stating and that, as they said in the Old West:

    some varmints just need killin’

    The American Indians were hard bastards and careless of innocent life — you ask a Texan rancher, as I have, with a family history back into the 1800s (the photos alone are fascinating), what the Indians were like and what they did not shrink from doing. They were not, not not not NOT, nice people.

    But: in their defence (and god, they needed one), they were at least trying to live as always on their own ancestral land.

    The Muslims have not even this primitive and insufficient excuse.

    • Guest 1

      Yes, they were not nice. But, they were trying to defend their homeland. If Europeans don’t, we, too, will go the way of the native Americans. As the Northern League had it in a poster a few years back, showing a native American: ‘Once he had mass immigration. Now he lives on a reservation.’ It is the way of history – conquest, defence, survival. We take our choice.

      • Callipygian

        I agree about defence but you make the assumption that my comment pertains only to their viciousness towards Europeans. The fact is that they could also be cruel to one another — and frequently were.

        • davideye

          Editor’s Choice

          Cite this as: BMJ 2011;342:d3956

          Article

          Related content

          Article metrics

          Rapid responses

          Response

          Re: Ending the stalemate over CFS/ME, Fiona Godlee, British Medical Journal, 22 June 2011

          In attempting to answer the questions: why researchers in CFS/ME

          can’t, “be like other common chronic conditions where patients, carers,

          doctors, and researchers work together …” (Heading for a therapeutic

          stalemate. Trish Groves, British Medical Journal, 22 June 2011) and

          whether any could be persuaded to move their ground (Ending the stalemate

          over CFS/ME, Fiona Godlee, British Medical Journal, 22 June 2011), it may

          be enlightening to understand how this impasse came about.

          Pure M.E. researchers are considering a single, discrete,

          neurological illness with a physical cause, as most appropriately named by

          Dr Melvin Ramsay and so categorised by the World Heath Organisation, ICD-

          10 G.93.3, whereas Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (CFS), or CFS/ME researchers

          are experimenting with a collective diagnostic bundle containing several

          illnesses with a variety of physical and psychiatric origins, including

          M.E., which M.E. researchers say should never have been dragged in at all.

          There may be others but one plausible reason for having done so is that,

          if M.E. can be said to be chronic fatigue and possibly a somatoform

          disorder, insurance companies do not have to pay out to M.E. sufferers.

          Whatever were the reasons for having done so, it has polluted the samples

          being tested to such an extent that the conclusions, will always be

          untrustworthy with respect to the essential requirements of validity and

          reliability, for so long as researchers use chronic fatigue, CFS, or any

          hybrid, such as CFS/ME. This has nothing to do with any personalities

          involved (Dangers of research into Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, Nigel Hawkes,

          British Medical Journal, 22 June 2011) and everything to do with proper

          experimental design, which should have been learned at High School level.

          Quite simply, it is unlikely that very few people with M.E., if any at

          all, were included in CFS/ME trials conducted (usually because they

          wouldn’t be well enough to travel, or have the stamina to take part) but

          the conclusions are extrapolated to them, even though the effects may be

          harmful. There clearly is a difference between CFS and M.E. or those who

          say that they are the same and who prefer CFS, would simply drop the M.E.

          part. That they do not suggests that, either, they are not wholly

          confident, or are hedging their bets in case a diagnostic test for M.E. is

          ever found

          So, M.E. sufferers, their carers, researchers and doctors who have to

          treat them could never accept the conclusions drawn from research

          conducted with various CFS/ME criteria, exemplified by the headline

          findings of the PACE trial (Comparison of adaptive pacing therapy,

          cognitive behaviour therapy, graded exercise therapy, and specialist

          medical care for chronic fatigue syndrome (PACE): a randomised trial,

          Lancet, 18 February 2011), since all research to date shows that Cognitive

          Behaviour Therapy (CBT) is ineffective, Graded Exercise Therapy (GET)

          makes a majority worse (A review of Cognitive Behavioural Therapy (CBT)

          and Graded Exercise Therapy (GET) in Myalgic Encephalomyelitis

          (ME)/Chronic Fatigue Syndrome(CFS): CBT/GET is not only ineffective and

          not evidence-based but also potentially harmful for many patients with

          ME/CFS – Twisk & Maes, Neuroendocrinology Letters, Volume 30 No. 3,

          March 2009) and most people with M.E. report than common sense pacing does

          seem to help; secondly, when, if they try to obey the advice to take

          exercise, it hurts them and, thirdly, when they have too many examples of

          fellow sufferers who have been set back, sometimes irrecoverably,

          housebound or bedridden when they have done it to destruction (Living with

          CFS/ME – Ollie Cornes, British Medical Journal, 22 June 2011). Nor are

          CFS/ME researchers likely to be keen to move from their position because

          it would put them out of a job, or at least that portion of their

          employment which depends on them clinging on to the M.E. part of the name

          they have taken,

          In practice, it seems, therefore, that this stalemate will not be

          broken. It could, however, with the will, be done this way: In the absence

          of a universally accepted diagnostic test for M.E., such as a blood test

          for Diabetes, or a scan for Multiple Sclerosis, which would obviously be

          most desirable for everybody, if CFS/ME researchers were prepared to

          accept a more discriminating set of criteria for M.E. than the NICE

          (National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence) guidelines, August

          2007, which either already exist, or be willing to consider any new

          criteria that might be further developed, it would put more clear water

          between M.E. and the chronic fatigue conditions by reducing the number of

          possibly confounding variables. Having done this, researchers would be

          able to see if there were any immediately obvious common factors, in this

          more pure sample and also conduct tests for any biomedical markers, or

          genetic expression, in order to find the cause, with the aim of suggesting

          effective treatment towards recovery or cure. This is the proper order of

          scientific enquiry, rather than the cart-before-horse method of offering

          treatments because those are the ones you have available.

          Armed with this workable model, Deputy Editor, Trish Groves and

          Editor, Fiona Godlee, might now contact, in turn, those in favour of the

          CFS/ME approach, including the people mentioned in one of the four related

          articles (Dangers of research into Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, Nigel Hawkes,

          British Medical Journal, 22 June 2011) of Dr Godlee’s Editorial (Ending

          the stalemate over CFS/ME, British Medical Journal, 22 June 2011), those

          who work in the national network of clinics giving CBT and GET and any

          other advocates of the NICE guidelines (2007) and PACE (2011) and also the

          M.E. researchers in the opposite camp. The responses they get and the

          warmth of reception they receive when asking each of them should provide a

          clue about the relative willingness to move and their motives for doing

          so, or not. I hope they will take up this invitation and report back with

          about equal space and prominence on the same pages of the British Medical

          Journal where they stirred up this hornets’ nest, rather than leave the

          question hanging but have the same elements repeatedly published as they

          have been for at least 25 years while all the funding goes one way and

          there is no reduction in the number of people remaining ill with this

          awful illness.

          • Callipygian

            what?

        • Guest 1

          Yes, indeed. My limited knowledge of native Americans is really about the ‘woodlands Indians’ of the N-E. Their behavior during the various French & Indian Wars (Seven Years War) campaigns was pretty revolting too. Are you she who was Swanky?

          • Callipygian

            Oh right. I am indeed she. Were you also someone in another life? : )

  • Mongo

    the ONS released their quarterly immigration statistics yesterday and there was barely a mention of it on the BBC or in most other mainstream news outlets.

    not to spoil the surprise but net migration is at a record high, again. Just like last time

    I suppose it’s not even shocking any more so it’s considered filler news

    • Plenck

      ‘Just like last time.’ And just like next time.

    • Guest 1

      What? I am shocked, shocked. Surely Dave said, ‘no ifs, no buts’. Or did he mean ‘butts’?

      Enough already. Defend Europe! It is Our Homeland!!

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4e7n7g1xAM&list=FL-nj2foVHt52zPuh0TdAiiw&index=6

      • Snowmuncher

        Powerful stuff

    • wudyermucuss

      8,000,000 foreign born residents,(10,000,000 with the illegals?).
      Say,10,000,000 born to immigrants,makes 20,000,000.

      • Andrew Cole

        half Polish and the other half…..not???

      • Robert the Devil

        And the madness continues as it is revealed that Turkish nationals are likely to be granted visa-free travel throughout the EU as the next stage in the process leading to Turkey’s membership of the EU. If that happens we are really finished and a civil war in Europe would seem to be virtually guaranteed at some point in the future. How bitter sweet would be the irony if that were to happen in that an organisation (the EU) which was established after the Second World War to prevent another war in Europe would instead have succeeded in promoting exactly that which it was set up to prevent.
        http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/11/26/inshallah-turkey-reveals-eu-fast-track-membership-bid-starts-in-weeks/

  • Plenck

    ‘Agreed that we should take more refugees, because getting tough is “what they (the nasty terrorists) want us to do”.’

    The left is not actually against curtailing the admittance of refugees because that is what they believe the terrorists want us to do (who cares anyway), they are against such because that is what right-wing ‘bigots’ want us to do. Such is the hatred and pettiness of the rub-the-right’s-faces-in-diversity left. In any case, reasonable adults would ask ‘what is best for us?’ and ignore what terrorists think.

    • Dougie

      Strange how there is a very high correspondence between those who oppose bombing ISIL in Syria and those who want us to take more Syrian refugees.

      • Steve Ironside

        Ah the humanitarians.. they are a strange bunch right enough..

        • Cyril Sneer

          What’s humanitarian about letting in a bunch of economic illegal migrants on the take?

          What’s humanitarian about inviting half the 3rd world here who then line the pockets of criminal people smugglers and along with ignoring the deaths of thousands of people through drowning etc just because it makes some Islington Liberal feel good about themselves?

      • hobspawn

        Yesterday I was talking to some people who certainly don’t want more refugees. None of them was in favour of bombing Syria.

  • Callipygian

    The Free Land for The Free People.

    That’s it.

    If you don’t like freedom, go away.

    If you attack freedom, we attack you.

    If you despise freedom, you do so through the microscope of our attention. And did I mention — if you threaten us, we attack you.

    It’s quite simple.

    — Citizen of Freedom

  • John Andrews

    George Orwell would not be surprised that the BBC term for ‘partiality’ is ‘impartiality’ and their term for ‘Religion of War’ is ‘Religion of Peace’. Is their term for ‘Ministry of Information’ the ‘British Broadcasting Corporation’?

    • Colibri

      You probably know that the Ministry of Information was based entirely upon Orwell’s experience of the BBC.

      • Maureen Fisher

        I’ve just quoted Orwell elsewhere – his vitriolic comments from the Road to Wigan Pier.

        • davideye

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          Professor Sir Simon Wessely, MA, BM, BCh, MSc, MD …

          http://www.armystarrs.org/…/professor-sir-simon-wessely-ma-bm-bch-msc-md...
          Sir Simon Wessely, MA, BM, BCh, MSc, MD, FRCP, FRCPsych, FMedSci, FKC. Simon Wessely is Professor and Head of the Department of Psychological …
          Edgar Jones and Simon Wessely, Shell shock to PTSD …

          journals.cambridge.org/abstract_S0025727300010085
          by B Shephard – ‎200616 Nov 2012 – Edgar Jones and Simon Wessely, Shell shock to PTSD: military psychiatry from 1900 to the Gulf War, Maudsley Monographs, No. 47 Hove and …
          Two-thirds of mentally ill Britons receive no treatment – RT.com

          https://www.rt.com/uk/180072-depression-treatment-mental-health/
          13 Aug 2014 – … said Simon Wessely, who will soon head the primary professional organization of psychiatrists in the UK, in an interview with the Guardian.
          Simon Wessely

          http://www.whale.to/v/wessely_h.html
          It is also home to controversial “Gulf War Syndrome” psychiatrist Simon Wessely, director of the Centre for Military Health Research at King’s College London …
          The true story of Gulf War Syndrome – Professor Simon …

          ▶ 1:07:21

          vimeo.com › Gresham College › Videos
          7 Nov 2012A lecture on “Gulf War Syndrome” by Simon Wessely, professor of psychiatry at the Institute of Psychiatry …
          The problem we have in the UK is we have psychiatrist who advise …

          http://www.mast-victims.org › … › General discussion
          23 Jan 2010 – 29 posts – ‎7 authors”Rubin’s boss is Simon Wessely, but let’s not be prejudiced. It’s just that Wesseley’s agenda on MCS, ME on GWS and on EHS is that “idiopathic …
          ‘Psychiatric prejudice’- a new way of silencing criticism …

          joannamoncrieff.com/…/psychiatric-prejudice-a-new-way-of-silencing-cr…
          23 Jun 2014 – In another article in the Times, psychiatrist Simon Wessely, newly elected president of the Royal College of Psychiatrists, complained that other …
          The Maudsley Handbook of Practical Psychiatry – Gareth …

          global.oup.com/…/the-maudsley-handbook-of-practical-psychiatry-9780…The Maudsley Handbook of Practical Psychiatry. Sixth Edition. Edited by Gareth Owen, Simon Wessely, and Robin Murray. New edition of this indispensable …

  • John Steadman

    Was it on last week’s ‘The Now Show’ – an alleged BBC radio satirical comedy show – that the treatment of the Paris massacres, which involved mocking some of the (disapproved of – by them) ways in which the events had been received and commented on over here, made not a single mention of the words, ‘Muslim’, ‘Islam’ or ‘Jihadist’? The targets were not the depraved savages who committed the atrocities, but merely the local commentators who had not made the appropriate BBC lefty noises after the event.

    • Murti Bing

      I’m sure I’ve heard the Now Show mock religion countless times – any chance they get. Always Christianity of course. Barn doors and targets spring to mind.

      And sheer bl**dy cowardice.

      • John Steadman

        Yes – but of course their cowardice doesn’t distinguish them from almost any other media outlet in the West; Charlie Hebdo was the Islamist fascists’ clinching argument.

        • Andrew Cole

          I remember Rory Bremner saying that Satire was dying out formerly from the sue culture and recently because of terror.

          Might have been a documentary on Spitting Image? can’t remember but was saying that you had to be more careful year on year what you did.

          I think it was before the Hebdo attack but he commented on the Mohammed cartoon death threats in relation to doing satire on certain subjects.

          • John Steadman

            If the alleged freedom-loving West had any notion of the implications of Charlie Hebdo, its media bosses would have got together and agreed, to a man, to publish simultaneously, the Allah cartoons. They did not seem to understand the strength in numbers phenomenon; they put their own interests before the collective interest – they simply lacked balls.

          • Andrew Cole

            And that Rory Bremner interview was probably 5 or 6 years ago.

            It isn’t just about organisations. He was worried for himself about repercussions which is fine. Many other people are the same. Others are bolder and then there are those who take advantage of ‘making a stand’ for their own gains such as Katie Hopkins.

            You can’t as an organisation say ‘we are doing this’ because many that are involved such as Rory Bremner might not feel the same way.

          • John Steadman

            I understand your point entirely, and I am filled with admiration for any commentator – and they are few in number, including a couple on this publication – who in the modern climate of fear and intimidation possess the guts to speak openly about, for example, the Islamo-fascists and their apologists of whom there are plenty, even within mainstream party politicians, as we see even now. But I will never be persuaded that, for example, the BBC should not have fully displayed and discussed in full, and with deliberation, the (now, unhappily, notorious) cartoons that Charlie Hebdo produced, as a consequence of its duty – it is a publicly-owned organisation – to promote and protect freedom of expression; and if it has always been acceptable to treat Christianity, for example (or any other religion) satirically, then it was bound, as a matter of simple principle to treat Islam in a similar way. And if it found that some or many, or most, of it’s concerned staff were unhappy about this approach, then it’s obligation would be to find staff of stronger metal. In this context, then, I have to disagree with you – in this context organizations bearing this amount of responsibility when the very foundations of a democracy are under attack, in this case freedom of expression, the organization must say, “We are doing this.” And remember my original point – that all major outlets in this country and throughout the West should have (preferably after collective consultation) adopted this approach. But instead they left it to likes of Charlie Hebdo, which became (almost) the only obstacle between the butchers and their objective of silencing criticism.

          • Andrew Cole

            I disagree. It would be fine for the BBC as an organisation to decide to display the Hebdo catoons but then would it be fine if some newsreaders were uncomfortable with being the presenter having to do it?

            What is the difference here between any organisation forcing its employees to do something against their will?

            Across the board this would set a precedent that employers can force their employees to do things.

            I would bet there would be a fair amount of newsreaders that would have been uncomfortable with being ‘the face’ presenting an article like that. Big difference between reporting the news and being one of those seemingly happy to present something that has already been shown to cause offence.

            I don’t just mean presenters of a certain religion or demographic either.

            You can’t just state the organisation should decide something and not take its employees’ views into consideration.

            That is unless you wanted to have a clearout anyway.

          • Mr B J Mann

            Rubbish!

            You DON’T need to HAVE a presenter saying these are the Hebdo cartoons.

            Never mine someone to present them.

            They don’t even need to be on a programme.

            They could just be presented in the break before the news starts!

          • Andrew Cole

            Have you not watched the news for the last 30 years? While the presenter reads from the autocue the news the pictures are behind that presenter.

            Are you suggesting that those who are uncomfortable with this should be forced to be in front of those pictures? or that some should be able to have a pixelated version behind them whilst others have the actual picture?

            You should be fully aware in this day and age of media, image and presentation techniques that most people in public life try to avoid situations like this all the time.

            Imagery is very powerful and I can quite understand if any news presenter would have a problem with presenting such a story with the imagery behind them.

            Whether you agree with that or not is by the by. You cannot insist that you reporters do this just as you can’t force any other uncomfortable situation on them.

            I don’t think it would have been any difference anyway.

            I cannot understand how people think that freedom of speech means that they can cause as much offence as possible. You still have to respect others opinion and whist no one could ever condone the actions of the islamists in reaction it is a little foolish and disrespectful to do things like this when you know it will offend.

          • Mr B J Mann

            If you spent less time “replying” to comments and more time reading the comments you are purportedly “replying” to you’d save us all a lot of time and effort!

            Which bit of:

            “They don’t even need to be on a programme.”
            “They could just be presented in the break before the news starts!”

            ie There doesn’t need to be *ANY* presentER for the cartoons to be presentED!

            Did you struggle with?!?!!!!!

          • Andrew Cole

            But I am saying to you that isn’t the format that any news channel does or would use.

          • Mr B J Mann

            Would you like me to Google Sports’SuppliesR-US and see if I can order you a few more sets of goalposts you can move?!

            You started off with:

            “It would be fine for the BBC as an organisation to decide to display the Hebdo catoons but then would it be fine if some newsreaders were uncomfortable with being the presenter having to do it?”

            And went on to witter on about “any organisation forcing its employees to do something against their will”.

            And claimed that “there would be a fair amount of newsreaders that would have been uncomfortable with being ‘the face’ presenting an article like that”.

            When I pointed out that:

            “You DON’T need to HAVE a presenter saying these are the Hebdo cartoons.”
            “Never mine someone to present them.”
            “They don’t even need to be on a programme.”
            “They could just be presented in the break before the news starts!”

            You totally and completely ignored what I said and started wittering on about:

            “presenter reads from the autocue the news the pictures are behind that presenter.”
            “should be forced to be in front of those pictures?…………..”
            “You cannot insist that you reporters do this……”
            “have to respect others opinion…. when you know it will offend”.

            When I reminded you of what I actually said, you again ignored it and started rambling on about:

            “that isn’t the format that any news channel does or would use”

            But you didn’t mention any news channel, or any news channel format.

            The BBC frequently broadcasts public information films, information, advertorials, etc, in between programmes.

            As do other channels, including news ones.

            There is nothing to stop them broadcasting shots of the Hebdo cartoons, with no presenter, no voiceover, no commentary, no editorial except perhaps a text line identifying them as the Charlie Hebdo cartoons, or a credit identifying them as the source, before or after the news,.

            Now stop wasting everybody’s time with your idle and nonsensical prattle!

          • Andrew Cole

            But I am saying that they never do this. When did the news ever do this?

          • Mr B J Mann

            Jesus H Christ?!?!?!!!!!!

            So WHAT?!?!?!!!!!!!!

            For the UMPEENTH TIME!!!!!!

            It doesn’t have to be on the news!!!!!

            It doesn’t have to be on *ANY* programme!!!!!!!!!

            It can be IN *BETWEEN* the programmes!!!!!!!!!!!!!

            And with *NO* presenter!!!!!!!!!!!!!

            *STOP* *TROLLING*!!!!!!!!!!??

          • Mr B J Mann

            By the way, although not a lot of BBC newsreaders and presenters might, many people are offended by nudity and rudity, at any hour, not to mention g-y marriage, and even coupling, not just !SIS but !slam, disparagement of Chr!stians and their religion, pr0miscuity, teachers having s=x with pupils, feminism, global warming……..

            I take it you are also insisting that:

            “I cannot understand how BBC staff think that freedom of speech means that they can cause as much offence as possible. You still have to respect others opinion and whist no one could ever condone the reactions of the offended in reaction it is a little foolish and disrespectful of writers, producers, directors, artistes, presenters, newsreaders, etc, to broadcast things like this when you know it will offend!”

            No?

            Then you are an illiberal, offensive, prejudiced, bigotted hypocrite!

          • Andrew Cole

            you are being silly now. Massive difference in having to tow the line in what is just an opinion and what is incredibly offensive. Also a lot less likely that a pro gay rights campaign group is going to issue a death warrant on your head.

            There are some things that you have to be sensible about.

            Get a grip. Big difference between being worried you might get killed by an AK47 wielding maniac than being harrangued by a pro “x” group in the UK. Shouldn’t be a difference.

            I am just saying that you think people should be forced to do something that they might fear repercussions from rightly or wrongly just because you think their organisation should take a stand.

            I’m not prejusdiced at all, I just think that it would worry some news presenters to have that kind of image behind them as is the format and custom of all news programmes. They weren’t bothered about presenting when they weren’t showing it but I would guess many would not want that image behind them and then shown around the muslim world. I just think it is fair for them to worry about that.

            What is more of a problem is the BBC’s stance of calling it ‘so called’. What is that all about? They do not want to be offensive to either side so call it ‘so called’.

          • Mr B J Mann

            No, YOU “get a grip”!

            Do you have a memory problem, or do you just not comprehend your own posts?

            “YOU are being silly now”!!!

            You said:

            “You cannot insist that you reporters do this just as you can’t force any other uncomfortable situation on them….”
            “I cannot understand how people think that freedom of speech means that they can cause as much offence as possible. You still have to respect others opinion and whist no one could ever condone the actions of the islamists in reaction it is a little foolish and disrespectful to do things like this when you know it will offend.”

            Which I paraphrased with:

            I take it you are also insisting that:

            “I cannot understand how BBC staff think that freedom of speech means that they can cause as much offence as possible. You still have to respect others opinion and whilst no one lefty “liberal” could ever condone the reactions of the offended in reaction it is a little foolish and disrespectful of writers, producers, directors, artistes, presenters, newsreaders, etc, to broadcast things like this when you know it will offend, never mind continually rub the public’s noses in offensive, sorry, “progressive” presentations!”

            No?

            Referring to a list of things that offend people I had listed in my previous paragraph.

            In response to you also wittering about people being offended in general.

            Your other “reply” yet again moved the goal posts about your false allegations about people expecting to risk the wrath of the !slam!sts, which I have yet again gone to the bother of responding to with yet another explanation that no presenter is being forced to do anything, especially offend anyone, though many seem to take great delight in offending people and organisations off their own bat.

            Now you try to conflate my reply regarding offending in general with offending people who might shoot a presenter.

            Clearly you haven’t run out of goalposts to move, and seem to be playing in several different ball-parks!

            It’s a simple question, as you seem to be so concerned about TV channels offending presenters, and claim to be against giving offence in general, do you, or do you not, agree then that TV channels, writers, producers, directors, artistes, presenters, newsreaders, etc, etc, shouldn’t give offence to those that are offended by nudity and rudity, at any hour, k!ssing, especially same s=x, not to mention g-y marriage, and even coupling, or even g=y presenters, not just !SIS but !slam, disparagement of Chr!stians and their religion, pr0miscuity, teachers having s=x with pupils, feminism, global warming……..

            Put up, or shut up!

          • Andrew Cole

            Bored with arguing with you. If you can’t see that it isn’t about offending presenters it is about people that are well within their rights to feel worried about repercussions which have already come to fruition with issues that should not be offensive but are.

            Putting the pictures up before the news? And then blur it out again behind the reporter? What is the point of that. We should just have responsibility that whilst there is freedom of speech there is a line where we have to consider others being offended.

            We pander so much to PC this and that to the point that nothing at all offensive is allowed yet we seem to think on something ike this we can push as far as we want.

            PC has gone way too far for far too long but that doesn’t mean we should be allowed to go around shouting whatever we want.

            Should the islamists be allowed to go around the UK or be on TV pushing the boundaries? No. Same here. We seem to think we are allowed to do whatever we want no matter how much it offends.

            Thats the end of my input so you may have the last word.

          • Mr B J Mann

            I’ll take three thanks;

            Brain Dead Trøll!

          • davideye

            Page 20 of about 4,210 results (0.35 seconds)
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            Publishing November 2012 : Nature

            http://www.nature.com.zhongjivip.net/nature/archive/subject.html?code…Shi-min Fang and Simon Wessely win award for standing up for science in the face of attacks and death threats. Richard Van Noorden. Nature News ( 07 …
            The ignorant dr who met his match 😉

            karajanespencer.tumblr.com/post/…/the-ignorant-dr-who-met-his-match
            8 Dec 2013 – Yet people end up with death threats and letter bombs when they say it. … and I was talked out of even thinking about it by Simon Wessely.
            409 – International Business Times UK

            http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/crime?page=409
            Leading London psychiatrist Simon Wessely criticises misconception that … Council worker, 33, arrested on suspicion of making death threats by telephone.
            social media | Lisa Says This

            lisasaysthis.com/tag/social-media/Personal attacks and even threats of death are not uncommon. …. of Mind, Sue Baker, Director of Time to Change and Professor Sir Simon Wessely, President of …
            Simon Wessely – Wikipedia’s Simon Wessely as translated …

            epo.wikitrans.net/Simon_Wessely – Translate this page7 Apr 2014 – Sir Simon Charles Wessely (Sinjoro Simon Charles Wessely) (naskita ….. Chronic lacecsindromo researchers face death threats from militants …
            49 – Электронная библиотека RuLit

            http://www.rulit.me/books/the-secret-read-408612-49.html
            ‘Surely you don’t think the CIA were complicit in all these deaths? … working on the problem including death threats, vilification on internet websites and … The BBC quoted Professor Simon Wessely of King’s College London saying, ‘It’s direct …
            ME Patients considered dangerous? – Cool Manchester

            http://www.coolmanchester.com/index.php/…/me-patient-s-considered-dangerous22 Aug 2011 – But, with articles that mention words like ‘miliant’, ‘death threats’, ‘dangerous’ and so on, it’s set’s an … SIMON WESSELY 27 AUGUST 2011.
            194 – Wikisearch

            HAVE SOME OF RODS FRIERNDS CRAP

            http://www.wikisearch.net/search?q=MyRA&page=194
            One of these researchers, Simon Wessely, reported personal death threats. Virologist Myra McClure stated she was subjected to horrible abuse from extremists …
            [PDF]Simon Weesely Professor of Epidemiology and Liaison …

            old.impact-kenniscentrum.nl/doc/kennisbank/1000010780-1.pdf
            by S Wessely – ‎2001 – ‎Cited by 52 – ‎Related articles2 Aug 1990 – Simon Wessely and the King’s College Gulf War Research Unit. The Gulf War … evidence for any deaths from those sources among. American …
            Dr Speedy @DrSpeedyandME | Klear

            klear.com/profile/DrSpeedyandMEDr. Ian Gibson on BBC radio: Prof Simon Wessely has been blocking proper … to the Observer’s article about Prof Wessely’s allegations of death threats #mecfs …

          • davideye

            Page 14 of about 4,240 results (0.28 seconds)
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            The politics of fatigue – CNWL NHS

            http://www.cnwl.nhs.uk/blog/the-politics-of-fatigue/
            4 Dec 2012 – Simon Wessely, Professor of Psychological Medicine at King’s College … facing professional smears and death threats from a vocal minority.
            Wessely saga continues | WAMES (Working for ME in Wales)

            wames.org.uk › Home › Latest News
            5 Dec 2012 – In November Prof Simon Wessely was awarded with the John Maddox … into ME in the face a prolonged hate campaign and death threats.
            Chronic Fatigue Syndrome General Discussions at DailyStrength …

            http://www.dailystrength.org/c/…/12559045-torrent-abuse-hindering-me
            29 Jul 2011 – 10 posts – ‎6 authorsThe harassment has included death threats, vilification on internet … occasional phone calls and threats,” says Professor Simon Wessely, …
            Should we ban electronic cigarettes? We #AskforEvidence …

            http://www.senseaboutscience.org › Blog
            16 Dec 2013 – … 600,000 annual deaths attributed to second-hand smoke. Of course if there is evidence that e-cigs pose a significant threat to human health, …
            [PDF]letter to Dr Wollaston – Smokefree Action Coalition

            smokefreeaction.org.uk/files/docs/LetHSC20150828.pdf
            28 Aug 2015 – budgets together with policy changes with respect to regulation threaten the sustainability of the. NHS. …. Professor Sir Simon Wessely.
            Disability Direct | Derby – admin

            disabilitydirect.com/derby/author/admin/
            Professor Simon Wessely President, Royal College of Psychiatrists … The distress, physical pain and even death of disabled and mentally ill citizens are … the biggest threat posed by the Conservatives’ cuts may not be the suffering they are …
            Brendan Clarke / Twitter #mecfs | ScraperWiki

            https://classic.scraperwiki.com/scrapers/twitter_scraper_3/
            RT @DrSpeedyandME: http://t.co/57toaBS The first picture of the death threats against Prof Simon Wessely has now been released #mecfs, Thu, 25 Aug 2011 …
            Study linking ME to virus retracted – Channel 4 News

            http://www.channel4.com/news/study-linking-me-to-virus-retracted
            22 Dec 2011 – Professor Simon Wessely, head of the department of psychological medicine at … projects related to CFS had faced attacks and death threats.
            Psychiatry, Psychedelics, and Propaganda: An Evening with …

            theprohibitionpost.com › International
            21 Jan 2015 – Drug cartels, the product of prohibition, continue to threaten Latin American security …. Sir Simon Wessely, president of the RCP, described the effect of his … “No one has died from psilocybin, there are few side effects, yet it’s …
            publications list – Bill Durodie

            http://www.durodie.net/publicationslist.htm(with Edgar Jones, Robin Woolven and Simon Wessely) … Perception and Threat: Why Vulnerability-Led Responses will Fail …. Death of the

      • global city

        Poking empty wasps nests… they are too scared to approach the live ones.

  • Maureen Fisher

    As Mengele once said:
    “The more we do to you,the less you seem to believe we are doing it.” It’s an appropriate description of our liberal elite and their attitude to Islamism.

  • Jouxtans

    It’s a shame the title means this article won’t be shared with the people who most need to read it: the Belgians.

    • rtj1211

      More likely the employees of the European Commission, European parliament and other bureaucracies who might become ‘acceptable collateral damage’ as France rediscovers its belief that ‘egalite’ is only for the French, ‘fraternite’ is only for US College girls and liberte is only for those who don’t bomb the middle of Paris……

  • ill-liberal

    Or ‘Manningham in Bradford’ . Although it is reasonably near Leeds it’s a strange thing to say, no ??

    • Andrew Cole

      He is trying to suggest that you can’t imply Bradford is not demographically challenged 🙂 even if it is.

  • right1_left1

    One state never mentioned is Israel.
    They have killed 1000’s
    Flattened city blocks.
    Bulldozed peoples homes.
    Lobbed shells on to Beirut.

    All becuase the followers of the religion of peace dont accept the theft of their lad.
    Did God really say I allocate that land to you ?
    Anyone of a rational dispostion care to camment ?

    • Murti Bing

      Some analysis would show that the Jews, along with the Christians, have inhabited these lands for a lot longer than the followers of the RoP, which only surfaced in about 600AD, so the matter of ownership is open to question.

      Another question worthy of consideration is where, at present, can Middle Eastern Jews currently live in the Middle East with a certain amount of safety? They used to cover the whole region, now they have to fight just to keep a small strip of land called Israel. What would you do?

      (I hope this reply is rational enough for you)

      • right1_left1

        In the pre Christian era, say 3000 years ago, the land identified as the Levant was inhabited by semitic tribes of which the Hebrews were one amongst many.

        Hebrews created religious/political literature which included myths just as potent as those believed by the followers of the the religion of peace

        Your claim that Hebrews used to cover the whole region is False
        One tribe amongst many….no more.

        Without elaborating on mass movement of population in to the Lavant ultimately a state within a was declared with zero democratic mandate and totally disregarding the wishes of the MAJORITY which has led to mass murder ever since.

        EXactly the same thing is happening in the UK today
        630,000 in the last year.

        • Penny

          Perhaps Murti Bing means that Jews lived throughout the Arab world – which isn’t the case now. They were either expelled, fled or were made too uncomfortable to remain.

          As for Israel declaring a state with a zero democratic mandate – the entire Ottoman empire was disbanded and many states were either re-established or created in its place. Ditto the Austro-Hungarian empire. India was later partitioned; Cyprus later still. Why single out Israel?

          • Murti Bing

            This is indeed what I meant. Apologies for any confusion and thank you for clarifying.

          • right1_left1

            It was not my intenstion to single out Israel.
            i simply pointed out the historical truth that followers of islam, Christianity and Judiasm have involved themselves in violence in order to preserve/spread their influence.

            It is you and the overwhelming number of interested posters here who by omission single out Israel.

            When the Hebrews became Jews I do not know.
            I do know that when God promised the Levant the group receiving that promise was one amongst many semitic tribes.
            Not really special except in their own estimation of themelves..

          • Penny

            I’ve no wish to divert the thread onto arguments about Israel. That said, I have no idea why you write “….equally wrong when Jews pinch and maintain an ever increasing slice of the cake…” What, precisely, has been “pinched” and who from?

          • right1_left1

            Most replies in this thread have focussed on the insane fundamentalist driven action of Isis..
            I do not dissent
            I listed atrocities that Israel has committed
            Nobody has claimed that what I said was wrong.

            Conflict in the Levant increased after WW1 leading to a UN report advocating a two state solution.
            That recommendation,rejected by one side, led ultimately to a Jewish regime declaring independence and political control over land that was not theirs to usurp.
            Ethnic cleansing occured in the region.
            Both sides committed acs of terror.
            That is what I meant by ‘pinched’

          • Penny

            The fact that nobody has responded to your comment doesn’t mean it is supported. You have a view of Israel which ignores facts in order to arrive at your preferred narrative. When I – and perhaps others – read this it seems pointless to debate because facts do not seem to be what you want. Narrative matters more.

          • Icebow

            Mossad be upon him. Long live Israel.

          • right1_left1

            Im well aware that few on ths site support my point of view.re the ME.
            What interests me is that were I wrong I would be overwhelmed with criticism.
            That has not happend.
            I wonder why ?

          • Alexsandr

            you had better take that up with the security council. it is they who created Israel.

          • Alexsandr

            when israel was formed by UN resolution in 1948 the first thing was attacks by arabs, who had refused a 2 state solution.

      • rtj1211

        The people who follow RoP may have lived there before RoP was formalised, just as Jews may have lived somewhere before Jesus Christ came along to cause the NT to be written…….

        • Alexsandr

          no. they are descendants of economic migrants who flocked to the area to take advantage of the jewish economic growth. few will have local ancestry dating back beyond 1870.

      • davideye

        Page 7 of about 182,000 results (0.29 seconds)
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        The Mental Elf: Simon Wessely on PACE | Phoenix Rising ME / CFS Forums

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        4 Nov 2015 – 20 posts – ‎11 authorsSo
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        http://www.amazon.com/Simon-Wessely/e/B001HQ6GA4Chronic Fatigue and Its Syndromes by Simon Wessely, Matthew Hotopf and Michael Sharpe (Jan 15, 1998). (12). Formats, Price, New, Used. Paperback Get it …
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        a …
        Mind, Madness, and Power – IAI TV

        iai.tv/video/mind-madness-and-power
        12 Sep 2013 – Consultant psychiatrist Sir Simon Wessely, sociologist Steve Fuller, and clinical psychologist Richard Bentall debate the value of …
        John Maddox prize : Nature News & Comment

        http://www.nature.com/news/john-maddox-prize-1.11750
        6 Nov 2012 – The British psychiatrist Simon Wessely and the Chinese science writer Shi-min Fang are the two inaugural winners of the John Maddox Prize.
        Independent report calls for more ‘balanced’ and ‘truthful …

        http://www.mirror.co.uk › News › Technology & Science › Mental health22 Jul 2015 – Of course, this is absurd, and Simon Wessely, the UK’s top psychiatrist, explained why: “What does cause trouble is saying that if you have ever .

      • davideye

        Editor’s Choice

        Ending the stalemate over CFS/ME
        BMJ
        2011;
        342
        doi: http://dx.doi.org/10.1136/bmj.d3956
        (Published 22 June 2011)

        Cite this as: BMJ 2011;342:d3956

        Article

        Related content

        Article metrics

        Rapid responses

        Response

        Re: Ending the stalemate over CFS/ME, Fiona Godlee, British Medical Journal, 22 June 2011

        In attempting to answer the questions: why researchers in CFS/ME

        can’t, “be like other common chronic conditions where patients, carers,

        doctors, and researchers work together …” (Heading for a therapeutic

        stalemate. Trish Groves, British Medical Journal, 22 June 2011) and

        whether any could be persuaded to move their ground (Ending the stalemate

        over CFS/ME, Fiona Godlee, British Medical Journal, 22 June 2011), it may

        be enlightening to understand how this impasse came about.

        Pure M.E. researchers are considering a single, discrete,

        neurological illness with a physical cause, as most appropriately named by

        Dr Melvin Ramsay and so categorised by the World Heath Organisation, ICD-

        10 G.93.3, whereas Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (CFS), or CFS/ME researchers

        are experimenting with a collective diagnostic bundle containing several

        illnesses with a variety of physical and psychiatric origins, including

        M.E., which M.E. researchers say should never have been dragged in at all.

        There may be others but one plausible reason for having done so is that,

        if M.E. can be said to be chronic fatigue and possibly a somatoform

        disorder, insurance companies do not have to pay out to M.E. sufferers.

        Whatever were the reasons for having done so, it has polluted the samples

        being tested to such an extent that the conclusions, will always be

        untrustworthy with respect to the essential requirements of validity and

        reliability, for so long as researchers use chronic fatigue, CFS, or any

        hybrid, such as CFS/ME. This has nothing to do with any personalities

        involved (Dangers of research into Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, Nigel Hawkes,

        British Medical Journal, 22 June 2011) and everything to do with proper

        experimental design, which should have been learned at High School level.

        Quite simply, it is unlikely that very few people with M.E., if any at

        all, were included in CFS/ME trials conducted (usually because they

        wouldn’t be well enough to travel, or have the stamina to take part) but

        the conclusions are extrapolated to them, even though the effects may be

        harmful. There clearly is a difference between CFS and M.E. or those who

        say that they are the same and who prefer CFS, would simply drop the M.E.

        part. That they do not suggests that, either, they are not wholly

        confident, or are hedging their bets in case a diagnostic test for M.E. is

        ever found

        So, M.E. sufferers, their carers, researchers and doctors who have to

        treat them could never accept the conclusions drawn from research

        conducted with various CFS/ME criteria, exemplified by the headline

        findings of the PACE trial (Comparison of adaptive pacing therapy,

        cognitive behaviour therapy, graded exercise therapy, and specialist

        medical care for chronic fatigue syndrome (PACE): a randomised trial,

        Lancet, 18 February 2011), since all research to date shows that Cognitive

        Behaviour Therapy (CBT) is ineffective, Graded Exercise Therapy (GET)

        makes a majority worse (A review of Cognitive Behavioural Therapy (CBT)

        and Graded Exercise Therapy (GET) in Myalgic Encephalomyelitis

        (ME)/Chronic Fatigue Syndrome(CFS): CBT/GET is not only ineffective and

        not evidence-based but also potentially harmful for many patients with

        ME/CFS – Twisk & Maes, Neuroendocrinology Letters, Volume 30 No. 3,

        March 2009) and most people with M.E. report than common sense pacing does

        seem to help; secondly, when, if they try to obey the advice to take

        exercise, it hurts them and, thirdly, when they have too many examples of

        fellow sufferers who have been set back, sometimes irrecoverably,

        housebound or bedridden when they have done it to destruction (Living with

        CFS/ME – Ollie Cornes, British Medical Journal, 22 June 2011). Nor are

        CFS/ME researchers likely to be keen to move from their position because

        it would put them out of a job, or at least that portion of their

        employment which depends on them clinging on to the M.E. part of the name

        they have taken,

        In practice, it seems, therefore, that this stalemate will not be

        broken. It could, however, with the will, be done this way: In the absence

        of a universally accepted diagnostic test for M.E., such as a blood test

        for Diabetes, or a scan for Multiple Sclerosis, which would obviously be

        most desirable for everybody, if CFS/ME researchers were prepared to

        accept a more discriminating set of criteria for M.E. than the NICE

        (National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence) guidelines, August

        2007, which either already exist, or be willing to consider any new

        criteria that might be further developed, it would put more clear water

        between M.E. and the chronic fatigue conditions by reducing the number of

        possibly confounding variables. Having done this, researchers would be

        able to see if there were any immediately obvious common factors, in this

        more pure sample and also conduct tests for any biomedical markers, or

        genetic expression, in order to find the cause, with the aim of suggesting

        effective treatment towards recovery or cure. This is the proper order of

        scientific enquiry, rather than the cart-before-horse method of offering

        treatments because those are the ones you have available.

        Armed with this workable model, Deputy Editor, Trish Groves and

        Editor, Fiona Godlee, might now contact, in turn, those in favour of the

        CFS/ME approach, including the people mentioned in one of the four related

        articles (Dangers of research into Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, Nigel Hawkes,

        British Medical Journal, 22 June 2011) of Dr Godlee’s Editorial (Ending

        the stalemate over CFS/ME, British Medical Journal, 22 June 2011), those

        who work in the national network of clinics giving CBT and GET and any

        other advocates of the NICE guidelines (2007) and PACE (2011) and also the

        M.E. researchers in the opposite camp. The responses they get and the

        warmth of reception they receive when asking each of them should provide a

        clue about the relative willingness to move and their motives for doing

        so, or not. I hope they will take up this invitation and report back with

        about equal space and prominence on the same pages of the British Medical

        Journal where they stirred up this hornets’ nest, rather than leave the

        question hanging but have the same elements repeatedly published as they

        have been for at least 25 years while all the funding goes one way and

        there is no reduction in the number of people remaining ill with this

        awful illness.

      • davideye

        Page 3 of about 4,280 results (0.22 seconds)
        Search Results
        Chronic Fatigue Syndrome: Death threats for scientists …

        blogs.discovermagazine.com/…/chronic-fatigue-syndrome-death-threats-…
        21 Aug 2011 – Simon Wessely and his friends in the psychology business have ….. Chronic fatigue syndrome researchers face death threats from militants
        Chronic Fatigue Scientists Get Death Threats | The Scientist …

        http://www.the-scientist.com › The Scientist › The Nutshell
        23 Aug 2011 – Simon Wessely and his cohorts have ignored all the scientific …. Death threats from unstable individuals does sorta lend credence to the idea …
        Statement re Simon Wessely and claims of harassment …

        http://www.academia.edu/…/Statement_re_Simon_Wessely_and_claims_of_ha...
        Statement re Simon Wessely and claims of harassment … that $you will all pay$ was deemed a %death threat% last summer, when no threat was actually made, …
        Courage for sound science wins John Maddox prize – Nature

        http://www.nature.com/…/courage-for-sound-science-wins-john-maddox-prize...
        7 Nov 2012 – Shi-min Fang and Simon Wessely win award for standing up for science in the face of attacks and death threats.
        promoting the opinions and views of Professor Simon Wessely

        http://www.investinme.org/Article-505%20PCC%20Complaint%20Aug%2020...
        29 Aug 2011 – “He (Professor Simon Wessely) believes the illness, which results in … phone calls and even death threats from ―extremist ME sufferers.
        Evidence of threats to staff member – WhatDoTheyKnow

        https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/cy/…/evidence_of_threats_to_staff_m…
        14 Nov 2012 – Professor Simon Wessely, your Vice Dean and Head of Department of … death threats and threatening phone calls, and now has his mail
        BBC Today Programme: Full Tom Feilden interview with Prof Simon …

        forums.phoenixrising.me › … › General ME/CFS News
        6 Aug 2011 – 15 posts – ‎10 authorsOne of those targeted is Professor Simon Wessely from Kings College London hes received a series of death threats and now has his mail …
        Simon Wessely on Twitter: “Suzanne O’Sullivan laying to …

        https://twitter.com/wesselys/status/615801844728659968
        30 Jun 2015 – So, @WesselyS and O’Sullivan are putting to death the myth that … death threats from bedbound people who have “lazy crazy” disease!
        Petition To Strip Professor Simon Wessely Of His Knighthood

        samedifference1.com/…/petition-to-strip-professor-simon-wessely-of-his-…
        31 Dec 2012 – Controversial professor Simon Wessely has been given a knighthood. Considering his … ME Researchers Face Death ThreatsIn “updates”.
        Open letter to Professor Simon Wessely – ME/CFS Australia …

        sacfs.asn.au › In the News › 2011 › August
        29 Aug 2011 – Open letter sent to Professor Simon Wessely, Re: “M.E. death threats” story. Open letter sent to Professor Simon Wessely, Institute of Psychiatry, … Some results may have been removed under data prot

    • Alexsandr

      need a history lesson? here goes.

      until around 1870 what is now Israel was largely unpopulated. It was part of the Ottoman Empire which was Turkish. As was Syria and Lebanon. The Mutasarrifate of Jerusalem covered what is Israel, Palestine Jordan and Sinai.

      Then the Jews started arriving escaping anti jew feelings elsewhere. They brought technology to make the place habitable. Arabs also arrived to take advantage of the economic growth.

      Then there was WW1. Turkey picked the wrong side and the Ottoman Empire was defeated. After WW1 the League of Nations mandated the UK and Frrance to run the Levant. UK got what was then called Palestine, French got Lebanon and Syria.

      More Jews arrived and Palestine grew and more Arabs arrived. Jordanians and Egyptians I believe. There was talk of a Jewish state and some Jewish terrorism against the british.

      Then WW2, and the Nazis. And the extermination of Jews in Germany.

      1945, and jews arrive in numbers. The UN wanted a 2 state solution and wanted to create 2 states. but the Arabs would not agree so only Israel happened in 1948.

      Since then Israel has been attacked by its neighbours denying its right to exist in contravention of the UN. It has had to defend itself properly because the Islamic states surrounding it would destroy it.
      Why the Islamic world are so jealous of a small country smaller than Wales is beyond me. If they had left it alone then Israel would not have invaded anyone. But Israel stands in the way of worldwide islamic caliphate, as required by the koran.

      • hobspawn

        You made 1948 sound nice, but otherwise not a bad synopsis.

        • WetWork

          Pakistan means holy/pure/clean place/nation and was carved out of India as a mono-religious state. None Muslims were either expelled, murdered or live as second class citizens.
          How come you don’t rail against Pakistan and boycott Pakistani’s?

      • right1_left1

        The Jews started to arrive in Palestine in great numbers from about 1870.
        This eventually caused resentment leading to terrorism in both sides.

        After WW2 most went to the USA.

        Quotes by David Ben-Gurion, :
        “I favor partition because when we become a strong power
        we will abolish partition and spread throughout Palestine.”
        This tendency has occured and even today illegal setlements are being constructed on the West Bank’

        “Let us not ignore the truth among ourselves … we are the aggressors and they defend themselves”;
        and
        “If I were an Arab leader I would never make terms with Israel.
        That is natural, we have taken their country.”

        There are many other blood curdling quotes availabe

        In the run to UDI and the failed military response large numbers of Arabs were expelled from their homes.
        See the actions of amongst others the Haganahand various other Jewish terrorist organisations.

        Are you aware that towards the end of the UK mandate in Palesten UK troops were under attack from Jews.
        Can you explain that ?.

        A Middle East whirlwind is increasing in strength.
        The downing of the Russian jet by Turkey could increase the windstrength.

      • right1_left1

        You have presented an inaccurate but fashionable interpretation of how the modern state of Israel was created on land that was not uniquely Jewish.

        My attempt to reply has been sense sawed

        So does history progress.

        • Alexsandr

          I never said it was a Phd thesis. I am sure those who are interetsed can research further. But it debunks the notion that the area is ancient palestinian lands. and indeed that there was an ancient palestinian clan from which the present day palestininas are descended.

          • Mr B J Mann

            I thought there was an ancient Palestinian clan from which the present day Palestinians (as opposed to Arab !mmigrants) are descended.
            Whose land was roughly the Gaza Str!p.
            But when the Romans conquered the region they used their name for the whole of it to rub the locals nose in it.
            Bit like if they had called their British province Wales!

  • Mr Grumpy

    I see the head of the great enormous child abuse inquiry says abuse in the Catholic church has been “a matter of national and international concern for many years”. Anyone else get the feeling that if she talked like that about a certain other faith community she’d be out of her 360k a year job before you could say “Rotherham”?

    • rtj1211

      I guess you have to ask what ‘historical’ means in this context. Does it mean before that many Muslims were here so Rotherhams weren’t happening back then?

      • Mr Grumpy

        “Historical” means a sight less important than the stuff going on now which we could actually prevent. Do we have a £360k a year anti-fgm tsar? Are we going to get one?

    • alfredo

      It’s clearly intended that she should steer clear of the real world. This a just a bit of theatre (of the absurd) whereby various ‘victims’ or ‘survivors’ will get to say their piece (which will turn out to an embarrassingly large extent to be malicious fantasy). A great deal of time and money will be wasted; nothing will be achieved and no lessons will be learnt – except about the workings of victimology and conspiracy theory.

    • jennybloggs

      Never under estimate Dave’s PR abilities – it was he who set up this nonsense which will cost millions and achieve nothing.

  • Frank

    Good article, keep it up.
    Meanwhile, can we please get our Border Police, or more likely our Border Community Workers (“BCW”) to focus on the Treason Act, which specifies that you commit Treason if you take up arms against this country. Can our BCW then either lock up these returning jihadists, or simply take away their passports and refuse them entry?

    • hobspawn

      Actually, I think treason includes conspiracy to take arms against the country. In other words, it is already criminal to be a muslim. The evidence: the Quran.

  • R.Celica

    The cover of the current issue of ‘Private Eye’ is a cracker. Two bombed up Tornados in flight with a caption bubble from a cockpit – ‘Belgium here we come’

  • rtj1211

    I didn’t realise you were turned on by your wife slapping you across the face, Mr Liddle……and that’s assuming she’s the sort of forgiving Christian who merely asks you to give up eating anything fatty for Lent to make you embrace hunger rather than cannibalism as your penance for your most unchristian thoughts…..

    You do realise your article will cause the crazed feminists of Oxford to call for ‘equal opportunities in cannibalism’. I hope that Dianne Abbott never subscribes, as she might have quite a voracious appetite…..

    Perhaps we could Islamicise the Premier League and say that any team who loses more than 5-0 has the right to eat one member of the squad who pulverised them, just so as to make it more of a handicap chase than a Grade I Gold Cup…….??

  • Mr. Bernard Wijeyasingha

    If the French ever bomb Belgian Hercules Perot will be very very angry.

    • Callipygian

      Poirot you mean.

      • Mr. Bernard Wijeyasingha

        Oh dear I am going to hear that Belgiam Detective give me a lecture. Yes Poirot. He plans to stamp out rice from Belgium.

        • Freddythreepwood

          I’ve always said there was too much rice in Belgium.

          • Mr. Bernard Wijeyasingha

            Poirot, in one of the episodes said that either he or Belgium is going to stamp out Rice. It was funny.

    • davideye

      Page 5 of about 182,000 results (0.23 seconds)
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      Q&A with Professor Sir Simon Wessely – President of The …

      https://keelesu.com/events/9492/1526/
      … Campus Maps · First Floor · Ground Floor · Second Floor · Transport · Virtual Tours. Q&A with Professor Sir Simon Wessely – President of The Royal College …
      Professor Sir Simon Wessely » Maudsley Learning

      http://www.maudsleylearning.com/events/speakers/professor-sir-simon-wessely/
      Professor Sir Simon Wessely MA BM BCh MSc MD FRCP FRCPsych FMedSci FKC. Simon Wessely is Professor and Head of the Department of Psychological …
      Simon Wessely – IMDb

      http://www.imdb.com/name/nm6603167/
      Simon Wessely, Self: Secrets from the Asylum. Simon Wessely was born as Simon Charles Wessely.
      Shell Shock to PTSD: Military Psychiatry from 1900 to the …

      http://www.amazon.co.uk › … › Schools of Thought › Jung, Carl
      Buy Shell Shock to PTSD: Military Psychiatry from 1900 to the Gulf War (Maudsley Series) by Edgar Jones, Simon Wessely (ISBN: 9781841695808) from …
      Professor Sir Simon Wessely: What has forward psychiatry …

      ▶ 27:11

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSTvFSKATaI
      25 Sep 2014 – Uploaded by bpsmediacentreProfessor Sir Simon Wessely, President of the Royal College of Psychologists, speaking at the Annual …
      Psychiatrists reported to GMC over ‘fixed sexuality’ stance …

      http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/science/article4411495.ece
      15 Apr 2015 – Sir Simon Wessely, president of the RCP, said the college still believes ‘homosexuality is not a psychiatric disorder’. Richard Pohle/The Times.
      Simon Wessely is fundraising for The Royal British Legion

      https://www.justgiving.com/simonwessely/
      Thanks
      for visiting my fundraising page. Donating through Justgiving is quick,
      easy and totally secure. It’s also the most efficient way to sponsor
      me: Royal British …
      Spotlight On Sir Simon Wessely (President Of The Royal …

      https://truthman30.wordpress.com/…/spotlight-on-simon-wesseley-presid…
      7 Jul 2014 – Sir Simon Charles Wessely is a British psychiatrist. He is Professor of Psychological Medicine at the Institute of Psychiatry, King’s College …
      Debating Matters – People – Simon Wessely

      http://www.debatingmatters.com/people/simon_wessely/
      Simon
      directs the King’s Centre for Military Health Research, is the Civilian
      Consultant Advisor in Psychiatry for the British Army and is Vice Dean
      of the Institute …
      Simon Wessely | King’s College London – Academia.edu

      kcl.academia.edu/SimonWessely30 Oct 2015 – Simon Wessely, King’s College London, Department of Psychological Medicine, Faculty Member. Studies Doctoral education, Design …

      • Mr. Bernard Wijeyasingha

        OMG. you downloaded an encyclopedia. It was only a joke.

  • Mike E

    Wonderful:-)

  • WalterBannon

    Ban Islam

    deport every single last muslim

    • hobspawn

      Sadly, this rational solution is what it will take. That’s why we have lost.

  • davideye

    Government orders release of PACE trial data

    November 6, 2015

    By #ME Action

    Categories: All News, Featured news, Policy News, Research News, United Kingdom

    1,221

    The Information Commissioner’s Office (ICO)
    has ordered Queen Mary University of London to release anonymized PACE
    trial data to an unnamed complainant. Queen Mary has 28 days to appeal
    the decision.

    The report outlines
    the scope of the data requested, Queen Mary’s arguments for refusing
    to release the data and the Commissioner’s justification for siding with
    the patient requesting the data be released.

    Among the reasons cited by researchers for initially denying the
    request was the fear that the “vocal minority” of patients online would
    actively attempt to de-anonymize the data and reveal trial participants’
    identities.

    Timeline

    The complainant initially requested the release of data from Queen
    Mary under the Freedom of Information Act on March 24, 2014 (Queen Mary
    has initially responded that they would not release that data since the
    associated costs would exceed ‎£450). On June 18, 2014, the complainant
    requested and internal review after which Queen Mary maintained its
    original position to withhold the data. In December, the complainant
    contacted the ICO with concerns about how the request had been handled.
    On October 27, 2015, the Information Commissioner sided with the
    complainant and order the release of the data.

    Data requested

    The complainant requested a version of the dataset that includes the
    following variables, with all potentially identifying data removed:

    • SF-36 physical function scores (range 0-100 points) [baseline and 52-week followup];

    • CFQ fatigue Likert scores (range 0-33 points) [baseline and 52-week followup];

    • CFQ fatigue bimodal scores (range 0-11 points) [baseline and 52-week followup];

    • Oxford criteria CFS caseness (does participant meet criteria, yes or no) [52-week followup only];

    • Participant-rated CGI scores (range 1-7) [52-week followup only];

    • Doctor-rated CGI scores (range 1-7) [52-week followup only];

    • 6MWT walking distances (in meters) [baseline and 52-week followup];

    • The group which each participant was allocated to after randomisation (i.e. either to APT, CBT, GET, or SMC).

    Queen Mary’s reasons for denying the request

    “This isn’t a purely scientific debate; this is going to the heart of the integrity of the scientists who conducted this study.”

    The reasons cited for Queen Mary’s denial of the request relate to
    sections of the Act that allow researchers to withhold data prior to
    publication of the papers on which they are based. In this case, the
    researchers claimed that since they were continuing to publish papers,
    they were exempt from releasing the data. They also cited an
    exemption on the basis that the data contained sensitive medical
    information from which it was possible to identify the trial
    participants. They also claimed that if they released the data it might
    harm their ability to recruit patients for research studies in the
    future.

    In its discussion of personal information, Queen Mary cited the
    problem of the “motivated intruder” who might try to identify patients
    based on anonymized data. Specifically they claimed that maintaining
    anonymity could be especially difficult given the passions of the “vocal
    minority,” that is, the online patient community. Queen Mary’s reasons
    for denying the FOI reveal a group of researchers who feel themselves
    besieged by what they feel is a politically motivated campaign, not the
    normal discourse of science:

    “The PACE trial has been subject to extreme scrutiny
    and opponents have been against it for several years. There has been a
    concerted effort by a vocal minority whose views as to the causes and
    treatment of CFS/ME do not comport with the PACE trial and who, it is
    QMUL’s belief, are trying to discredit the trial. Indeed, as noted by
    the editor of the Lancet, after the 2011 paper’s publication, the nature
    of this comprised not a ‘scientific debate’ but an “orchestrated
    response trying to undermine the credibility of the study from patient
    groups [and]… also the credibility of the investigators and that’s what I
    think is one of the other alarming aspects of this. This isn’t a purely
    scientific debate; this is going to the heart of the integrity of the
    scientists who conducted this study.”

    Michael Sharpe further explained:

    “I think the first thing to say here is that we recruited
    640 patients into this trial and there wasn’t a high rate of refusal
    of taking part in the trial and those patients remarkably, a
    vast majority of them stayed right through to the end of the trial,
    they accepted the treatments and they completed our outcome data. So I
    think it’s very important to remember that if you go out there to the
    clinics that most patients with chronic fatigue syndrome, all they want
    is the evidence for what they have to do. There is parallel to that, a
    very vociferous series of websites and so on, it’s not really the same
    world as the ordinary patient coming to the clinic. They have been quite
    hostile in many ways to the findings of the trial and unfortunately
    also to the people who’ve undertaken the trial and collaborated with the
    trial,”

    “…one
    sees a fairly small, but highly organised, very vocal and very
    damaging group of individuals who have…hijacked this agenda and
    distorted the debate so that it actually harms the overwhelming majority
    of patients”

    Richard Horton:

    “I think this is where one sees a real fracture in the
    patient community. One is seeing a very substantial number of
    patients very willing to engage in this study, desperate to get
    good evidence on which to base their future treatment but one sees
    a fairly small, but highly organised, very vocal and very damaging group
    of individuals who have I would say actually hijacked this agenda and
    distorted the debate so that it actually harms the overwhelming majority
    of patients,”.

    This community actively seeks to identify and attack those who are associated with the PACE trial.”

    The fear was that the online patient community would take this successfully de-anonymized data and publish it online:

    “…must further consider this greater risk presented
    for identification with this data set from the highly
    motivated requestor who will likely publish it on a CFS/ME group
    website, such as Phoenix Rising, where it will be available to all
    CFS/ME activists seeking to discredit the PACE trial and its
    researchers, as has been demonstrated, since they do not agree with
    the PACE trial outcomes. The risk is maximised by the fact that
    the CFS/ME patient community is a very small percentage of
    the population (e.g. estimates at less than 1%) and the PACE
    trial population already known to be part of that is relatively large
    and possibly including members of the above. The risk that
    additional information could be combined with the individual level data
    to allow identification must be considered not at all
    far-fetched, although QMUL need not be expected to know exactly
    what additional information there is presently.”

    the request is merely one of a series of requests for similar access
    to this same medical treatment information, upheld by the ICO on several
    occasions, including a request by the complainant found vexatious (see
    FS50558352) as part of a campaign by a small group of CF/MSE activists
    to discredit research and researchers whose results they do not agree
    with.

    While some participants have volunteered to share their experiences
    being a part of the PACE trial on social media, there is no evidence
    of any concerted campaign that “actively seeks to identify and attack
    those who are associated with the PACE trial.”

    Queen Mary also argued that release of the data might diminish trust,
    make it difficult to recruit patients for future trials, and hamper its
    ability to conduct future research in the area. And that the release of
    such data could have wider repercussions for the ability of researchers
    in general to recruit participants for clinical trials.

    In his decision, the Commissioner found that QMUL failed to provide
    any plausible mechanism through which patients could be identified, even
    in the case of a “motivated intruder.” He was also not convinced that
    there is sufficient evidence to determine that releasing the data would
    result in the mass exodus of a significant number of the trial’s 640
    participants nor that it would deter significant numbers of participants
    from volunteering to take part in future research.

    Editor’s note: this article has been updated to better explain
    the scope of the data being requested and the commissioner’s finding
    that QMUL provided no plausible mechanism through which participants
    could be identified given the limited scope of the complainant’s
    request.

  • davideye

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    Emily Collingridge, 1981-2012: such a short life, such a huge legacy

    Emily Collingridge, who died in hospital on Sunday at the age of 30, had hardly lived – but she leaves a huge legacy.

    It will endure in the form of ‘Severe ME/CFS: A Guide to Living’, the
    140-page book which she researched and compiled when all the health
    odds were stacked against her. It’s been on the ME Association’s highly
    recommended list since it was first published two years ago.

    At this point in time, one can only guess what writing this well
    dipped-into book took out of her but all the clues point to an utter,
    complete and this time unshakeable exhaustion.

    Emily had been ill since the age of six when she went down with
    mumps. For nine years – until she received her ME diagnosis in 1996
    – she suffered a huge array of bewildering and worrying symptoms for
    which doctors could find no cause.

    By then, her health was shot through and she had to use a wheelchair.
    Rather than bemoaning her lot, she had the good fortune to find an
    organisation much to her liking and threw herself into her first job as
    PR and Fundraising Manager for the Association of Young People with ME
    (AYME).

    Emily’s powerful presence there, even though she mostly worked from
    home, was soon felt far and wide and was recognised nationally by the
    Whitbread Volunteer Action Awards. At the age of 21, she left AYME to
    become a project adviser for several other charities, including Home
    Start.

    In 2005, she had a major relapse and, after AYME had published her
    book, she was also too ill to undertake the usual book tour and press
    interviews expected on such occasions.

    Tributes have been pouring in since the shock news of her death in King’s College Hospital, London, after a lengthy admission.

    Typical of comments on the Facebook page dedicated to the book
    is this from Cathy Stillman-Lowe: “Her book is an extraordinary
    achievement, and testament to her determination to help others and turn
    her suffering into a positive legacy for those with severe and very
    severe ME. I was privileged to work with her as a proof-reader on the
    book, and so saw her at work first-hand. God rest her soul, she suffered
    greviously with her illness, and is now at peace. Emily Rose – may
    flights of angels sing thee to thy rest!”

    And our own medical adviser, Dr Charles Shepherd, had this to say
    today: “We learned about Emily’s tragic death on Monday and I have been
    in regular contact with the family since then. Despite being very
    severely ill Emily made a major contribution towards helping other
    people with this illness and she will be sadly missed. We send our
    condolences to her parents and the family at this very difficult time.”

    No announcements have yet been made about the funeral arrangements.

    Emily mother’s Jane has asked for these last written
    words from Emily to be reposted. About a year ago, Emily tapped them
    into the keyboard of her smartphone over many weeks – while she still
    had the strength in her body to do so.

    Emily’s Appeal

    It has been said that the following is hard to read. But
    that is all we ask you to do: to read it, to forward/re-post it and to
    pledge your support for the many thousands of people like Emily who have
    to LIVE it.

    “My name is Emily. I developed the neurological condition Myalgic
    Encephalomyelitis (ME) when I was 6 years old. In April 2011 I turned
    30. I still have ME.

    ME coloured every aspect of my childhood; it painfully restricted my
    teens and it completely destroyed my twenties. Now, as I move into the
    next decade of my life, I am more crippled than ever by this horrific
    disease.

    My doctors tell me that I have been pushed to the greatest extremes
    of suffering that illness can ever push a person. I have come very close
    to dying on more than one occasion. If you met me you may well think I
    was about to die now – it’s like that every single day. After all these
    years I still struggle to understand how it’s possible to feel so ill
    so relentlessly.

    My reaction to small exertions and sensory stimulation is extreme.
    Voices wafting up from downstairs, a brief doctor’s visit, a little
    light, all can leave me with surging pain, on the verge of vomiting,
    struggling with each breath and feeling I’ll go mad with the suffering.
    Of course it can also be as bad as this for no particular reason – and
    often is. I cannot be washed, cannot raise my head, cannot have
    company, cannot be lifted from bed, cannot look out of the window,
    cannot be touched, cannot watch television or listen to music – the list
    is long. ME has made my body an agonising prison.

    My days and nights are filled with restless sleep interspersed with
    injections, needle changes (for a syringe driver), nappy changes (as
    well as experiencing transient paralysis and at times being blind and
    mute, I am doubly incontinent) and medicines/fluid being pumped into my
    stomach through a tube. My life could be better if I had a Hickman line
    (line which goes into a major vein and sits in the heart) for IV drugs
    and fluids, but such a thing would likely kill me. I’m on a huge
    cocktail of strong medications which help, yet still most days the
    suffering is incomprehensible. During the worst hours I may go without
    the extra morphine I need as I feel so ill that the thought of my mother
    coming near to administer it is intolerable – this despite pain levels
    so high that I hallucinate.

    I live in constant fear of a crisis driving me into hospital; our
    hospitals have shown such lack of consideration for the special needs of
    patients like me that time spent in hospital is torture (eased only by
    the incredible kindness shown by some nurses and doctors) and invariably
    causes further deterioration.

    Many days I feel utter despair.

    But, unlike some sufferers, over the long years in which I’ve had
    severe ME (the illness began mildly and has taken a progressive course) I
    have at least had periods of respite from the absolute worst of it.
    During those periods I was still very ill, but it was possible to enjoy
    something of life. So in these dark days I know there is a real chance
    of better times ahead and that keeps me going.

    My entire future, and the greatly improved health I so long for,
    however, currently hinges on luck alone. This is wrong. As I lie here,
    wishing and hoping and simply trying to survive, I (and the thousands
    like me – severe ME is not rare) should at least have the comfort of
    knowing that there are many, many well-funded scientists and doctors who
    are pulling out all the stops in the quest to find a treatment which
    may restore my health and that the NHS is doing all possible to care for
    me as I need to be cared for – but I don’t. This wretched, ugly
    disease is made all the more so through the scandalous lack of research
    into its most severe form and the lack of necessary, appropriate support
    for those suffering from it. This is something that must change.

    And that is why I tell my story; why I fight my painfully debilitated
    body to type this out on a smartphone one difficult sentence at a time
    and to make my appeal to governments, funders, medical experts and
    others:

    Please put an end to the abandonment of people with severe ME and give us all real reason to hope.”

  • davideye

    Page 4 of about 4,260 results (0.40 seconds)
    Search Results
    Simon Wessely – Powerbase

    powerbase.info/index.php/Simon_Wessely
    11 Apr 2015 – Simon Wessely, born 1956 in Sheffield, is Professor of …. Jenny Hope Death threats to scientists who say ME may be ‘all in the mind’ Daily Mail …
    ME is real – the true facts doctors and journalists need to know

    getwellfromme.com/…/46-me-is-real-true-facts-doctors-journalists-need-t…
    Professor Simon Wessely, Chair of Psychological Medicine and Vice Dean for … to the Observer’s article about Professor Wessely’s allegations of death threats, …
    Learn more about Simon Wessely | (e) Science News

    esciencenews.com/dictionary/Simon.WesselyScience news articles about ‘Simon Wessely’ … Shi-min Fang and Simon Wessely win award for standing up for science in the face of attacks and death threats.
    “Nature” awards quack hunters with John Maddox prizes – erv

    scienceblogs.com/…/nature-awards-quack-hunters-with-john-maddox-pri…
    21 Nov 2012 – often including threats of physical violence (check!) … for uncovering fraud in the Chinese science/medical system, and Simon Wessely, …. I do not condone the death threats against him, but being treated wrongly does not …
    Cinder Bridge: Death threats

    cinderbridge.blogspot.com/2011/08/death-threats.html
    28 Aug 2011 – The psychiatrists in question say they’ve received death threats from ME … Simon Wessely (at the time a senior registrar in psychiatry, not yet …
    Transition Skateboarding Trilogy – Page 29

    http://www.transitionskateboardingtrilogy.co.uk/resolution.html
    Simon Wessely has (if we are to believe) received death threats; claims that individuals … Second, Simon Wessely and those involved in the Wessely School of …
    Quark Soup by David Appell: More Death Threats

    davidappell.blogspot.com/2011/08/more-death-threats.html
    24 Aug 2011 – “It’s direct intimidation in the sense of letters, emails, occasional phone calls and threats,” says Professor Simon Wessely, of King’s College …
    Simon Wessely – research.omicsgroup.org

    research.omicsgroup.org/index.php/Simon_Wessely
    Open Access Articles- Top Results for Simon Wessely ….. “Chronic fatigue syndrome researchers face death threats from militants: Scientists are subjected to a …
    Researchers Face Threats from Militant Islamic Extremist …

    https://www.facebook.com/notes/danny…threats…/219517214764457
    “Err.. not quite.” says Simon Wessely, correcting the title of this piece. …. “I resent the implication that we are manufacturing these death threats.” snaps Wessely.
    me+ME: Wessely; Dr Myhill and the GMC + What about ME?

    maartens.home.xs4all.nl/log/2011/NL110730b.htmlJump to Wessely’s supposed ‘death threats’ – … because I compared Simon Wessely’s complaining about ‘death threats’ with the …

  • Ancient

    Straight talking as concerns identifying and calling out the detachment of the public opinion from the media and westminster, thank god for the spectator.

    • I’m not sure it’s widely enough read. Would that it were as influential in the back offices of the BBC as teh Guardian is though. Addressing BBC bias is one of the nettles that Thatcher should have grabbed (along with repatriation)

  • Scradje

    Sounds about right Rod. Anyone who violently disagrees with the thrust of the article should be an immediate candidate for deportation.

    • hobspawn

      You hit the nail on the head. If only our enemies within this country numbered the muslims. Sadly there are cohorts of apologists for islamic violence: the bourgeois atheist brain-washed left-wing majority.

  • Peter Stroud

    If only more journalists, radio and TV reporters an those who disseminate news would tell it as it is. Excellent article Rod

  • Paul B

    Basically dishonest bigotry is what we have here. The hatred of muslims is the unassailable given, the reasons for doing so will always be found. E.g. that at least 27% of ordinary British people when presented with Charlie Hebdo content said it went too far, then that “some 27 per cent of British Muslims, for example, expressed sympathy with the Charlie Hebdo murderers” falls into stark relief, especially when everyone knows it isn’t the *murders* that any 27% “expressed sympathy” with. This article is typical anti-muslim propaganda. It often seems nobody wants jihad more than Rod Liddle.

    • logdon

      Ha,ha!

    • gunnerbear
      • colchar

        /thread.

      • E.I.Cronin

        Brilliant reply. Pictures really do paint a thousand words. I noticed the troll didnt reply, and how could he?!

    • Icebow

      Anti-Islam propaganda is by far the best sort for at least the last sixty years.
      Islamomisia comes naturally to the unbiased observer. Hate the sin, not (mostly) the sinners.

      • Toy Pupanbai

        Churchill got it right!

    • Icebow

      Anti-Islam propaganda is by far the best sort for at least the last sixty years.
      Islamomisia comes naturally to the unbiased observer. Hate the sin, not (mostly) the sinners.

    • The_greyhound

      Dislike of islam is an entirely rational and decent thing. islam has violence at its very core : founded by a conqueror, and extended only by conquest, the only peace it brings is that of the grave.

      Sniveling kowtowing to this barbarous superstition is the sure mark of hypocritical virtue signalling.

      • Toy Pupanbai

        ‘A Rational Study of Radical Islam’ Dr Bill Warner. (Youtube.)

      • Paul B

        Sounds just like Christianity to me.

        • hobspawn

          You are clearly unfamiliar with Christianity. You should read up on it. Start with the Gospels.

          • Paul B

            And end with Leviticus and Revelations? Forgetting the centuries of Christian conquest? And not merely a matter of history: The “crusade” (Bush very provocatively used that word) visited on the ME by God-speaks-to-me Bush in vengeance for 3500 dead and two skyscrapers downed was against Muslims indiscriminately. Nothing more barbaric can be imagined than death and destruction visited on unrelated innocent civilians, and the exchange rate ME Muslim deaths to NY Twin Tower deaths must now be in the order of 100:1

            Christian barbarity [judged by the same criteria those who label some other barbarity Islamic] has no bounds. You might tell me, indignant, that that wasn’t Christianity. And, similarly indignant, I tell you that wasn’t Islam.

            There is no coincidence that at the time public racism became illegal in Britain was when English Defence League and National Front anti-Muslim rhetoric rose. Peoples seem to have a need to hate the “other”. First step: Identify the other.

          • hobspawn

            This is the problem with equality dogmatists. You will not stop until everything is believed to be equal. Truth is falsity. Redress is provocation. Good is evil. The Bible is the Quran. Jesus was a terrorist and Mohammed an enlightened man of peace. All religions are equal. Terrorist training camps in Afghanistan are peaceful monasteries. Before you can “identify the other”, you must first renounce your faith that everything is equal, and learn to discriminate.

            You truthers also need to understand the history of the crusades, which were a reaction to hostile invasion by a brutal religious army.

            Maybe start with these:
            http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/023-violence.htm
            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luxor_massacre

          • The_greyhound

            What centuries of Christian conquest are you rattling about, you retarded buffoon? More fictions of your overheated but ill-informed tiny mind?

            As for you third paragraph : some sad little people seem to need to betray their society and values, and embrace our enemy in order to buttress their own warped self regard. The generous view is that this is the mere virtue-signalling of the low intelligence classes, but it ends in simple treason. islam is a destructive and perverted anomaly : those defending it reveal much of their own deep seated personal problems.

          • Paul B

            South America. Africa. And elsewhere of course. Over centuries. But the crusades count too.

            In what way do you give the truth to your argument by resorting to ad hominem attack?

            And as for your 3rd para that’s assertion, not reasoning, not argument.

          • The_greyhound

            My second paragraph (you don’t seem to be able to count, amongst your other difficulties) is a deadly accurate assessment of the damaged psychology of the willing collaborator. They’re freaks, unable to fit in to your own society, and hanging on to the soiled coat tails of dirty, uneducated, brutal savages. You really do need to examine your own motivations in posting the ignorant rubbish you do : it goes way beyond the usual narcissistic virtue signalling.

        • Mary Ann

          Same god

        • The_greyhound

          That’s only because you are an uneducated bigot. There’s no comparison between Christianity (which created the modern western world) and islam, still stuck in the pre-industrial past.

          But carry on apologising for islamo-fascism by all means – this is a free country, unlike any islamic one.

    • colchar

      Anti-Muslim propaganda? You really are a special kind of stupid aren’t you? It is you and your ilk who are at least partly responsible for the problems we are now experiencing due to this cancerous religion.

      • Paul B

        Bigot.

        • hobspawn

          Haha, that gambit doesn’t work round here. You have to explain why he is a bigot. He seems pretty sensible to me.

          • Paul B

            The gambit of relying on the common meaning of a word? If that gambit doesn’t work then not much either does either. However, there is no direct evidence of brain death so “bigot” will just have to stand.

          • hobspawn

            He is simply observing that the left have promoted the growth of a muslim fifth column in Britain, to enrich us (gerrymander and virtue signal), and that this has lead to an increase of child-rape, abuse of women, crime, and bombs on the underground. Please explain how those facts indicate bigotry.

            You wish those facts not to be discussed as they challenge your fantasies about the Religion of Peace. You are the bigot.

    • Dr. Heath

      And how, exactly, would you frame a response to the singer whose opinions on the relative merits of citizenship of secular and of Muslim countries were voiced in the clip for which ‘nicetime’ has kindly provided a link?

      • Paul B

        If what she has written / spoken / sung is idiotic then that’s what it is. I have not looked because so what? It’s one person’s lunacy, if that is what it is. How could it change what I said about percentages?

        • hobspawn

          That’s the spirit, keep your head in the sand, stay clueless, mouth off.

          • Paul B

            I note the high quality refutation. You should try and get your way by violence, argument doesn’t become you.

          • hobspawn

             Paul B wrote:
            “The hatred of muslims is the unassailable given, the reasons for doing so will always be found.”

            Paul B also wrote:
            “You should try and get your way by violence, argument doesn’t become you.”

            “War is peace.
            Freedom is slavery.
            Ignorance is strength.”

    • Jacobi

      Hatred of Muslims is wrong. A cool objective assessment of the danger they constitute and intend to constitute to our way of life is right, proper, and indeed our moral duty.
      As for wanting a jihad war. Too late for that. We have it whether we like it or not

      • Paul B

        But Muslims are not the problem. That there are football hooligans [radical Islamists] says nothing about football fans [Muslims] and nothing about football [Islam]. Some have proposed banning football to tackle football hooliganism, but saner heads realised that the hooliganism will just find another outlet. The problem is the hooligans, not football. The problem is the terrorists not Islam.

        And certainly UK Muslims are not the problem. Here the problem is the increasingly large %age of British people emboldened to voice their racism and bigotry and already this spills over into attitudes to UK Muslims who face a hostile public as they just go about their daily lives. Anti-muslim violence is on the increase. Kristalnacht is a danger.

        • Jacobi

          Paul,
          Sooner or later, I suspect sooner you will reaise that football hooligans are a minor irritation. A bit like dandruff on your blazer.
          No Islam and its latest attack on our civilisation, the latest of so many since the 7th century is the problem.
          And please let’s have less of this silly “race” diversion. Muslims, and Christians and atheists and Bhuddhists come in all shapes and colours!

          • Paul B

            If you’re going to assert sillyness you need to provide reasons.

            If you were a Muslim living in the ME you could so easily write what you write about Islam and substitute Western Civilisation. We have been bombing the ME for 20 years killing innocent civilians. What is the smallest amount of blowback we could expect?

            Your arguments are circular. Islam is the problem because it is the problem. What does it do to us? How does it threaten us? Try to look at this as if you were an extraterrestrial policeman sent to restore law and order.

            What is the exchange rate which would satisfy you on innocent Western [Christian] deaths vs innocent ME [Muslim] deaths at our own so very clean remote control hands? 100:1 Muslims to Christians? 50:1? What would satisfy you?

            Were I the alien law enforcer I would start by counting body bags.

          • Jacobi

            My argument are always logical and linear. If I were a Muslim living in the ME my horizons would go way back beyond 20 years. They would go back circa 1,280 years to the as yet unfulfilled directive from my prophet to vanquish the unbeliever.
            And as to how that threatens us and New York 9/11 and London 7/7 and Mali 22/11, well I shall leave that to, you to work out. And by the way unbelievers include non-Christians, which for all I know you might well be!

          • Jacobi

            By the way, just been called down for my Guyanan rum. OUT!

          • Paul B

            In argument your reasoning must be presented.

            You conflate Islam with terrorism. Falsely. Mental illness among UK Muslims at the same level of the general pop’n would account by itself for many 1000’s of crazies. But the number of Muslim fanatics in the UK must be tiny because otherwise there would be off duty soldiers assassinated weekly, and bombs weekly. All it takes is a butchers’ knife and two crazies; or a chemistry undergrad and some commonly available ingredients. There is nothing to be scared of because recent history demonstrates by the number of incidents that the number of terrorists is tiny. So, where does the upswell of anti-Muslim feeling in the UK, which makes many Muslims’ lives difficult, where does that arise from?

            What is to be scared of is you brownshirts and the desired pogrom. Kristalnacht anyone?

            That’s where the danger to our society lies.

          • Jacobi

            Who on earth raise the subject of fanatics or mental illness? I am talking about people who are rational by any objective way of thinking, but happen to follow for whatever reason an evil philosophy. An example of this is any, but any, orthodox Muslim, whether they live in Racca or in Oldham.
            You completely underestimate he effectiveness of our security services. That is what stops them knifing us, including you, since although you are obviously an Islamophile, that is someone who has an inherently distorted posiitve view of Islam, they still consider you an unbeliever. Sadly the Christian people in Syria do not have the protection of our Security forces which is why they have fled.
            And don’t give me any more of that Marxist-Socialist crap about brown shirts, a colour which does not suit me.
            You are like all of your kind, becoming just a repetative bore. So OUT!

          • Paul B

            The security services are almost entirely ineffective against terrorism. The threat is exaggerated and the effectiveness of the security services grossly so. How do I know this? If they can stop terrorism how come they never stopped bank robberies? Robberies require more planning because they require an escape! Terrorism requires only basic chemistry or determined thuggery. You’ve been had, the threat is tiny. The thirst for power from authoritarians is unquenchable. That so many of want to demobise Muslims like Jews were feminised in Germany is very worrying. There will be repeats of Kristalnacht. My point about madness was simply to say that the number of mad far exceeds the number of terrorists and even the mad ones don’t threaten us.

          • Paul B

            Thus the personification of non sequitur exits stage right false “facts” in hand.

  • Dukeofplazatoro

    If the French are going to bomb Belgium, then hopefully it will be Brussels, and Junker, the Kinnocks and Mandelson will all be among the collateral damage. Oh and that dreadful Baroness Ashton if she’s still around

    • Alexsandr

      molenbeek is a long way from the EU quarter. pity.

      • Mike

        Yeah, the EU quarter might be a source of even more trouble. But the solution in that case is even simpler, and non-lethal: all those idiots should be sent packing. Not for home, where they’ll do other damage, but as a reverse migration to Syria, fully armed. Only good things can result, regardless of how it turns out.

  • boiledcabbage

    ‘These people are among us and they have been among us for a very long time indeed’

    We talk and talk and talk and nothing happens. In North Kensington they are organised on a Local Authority level and are slowly taking over things like Council Housing allocation to benefit their kind, at the expense of other ethnic minorities. Then elderly relatives appear, which puts a strain on local NHS facilities. Many niquabs in the local market now; five years ago there were none. So the neighbourhood changes, but after Paris especially, it not longer feels like a positive development. Im interested to know what sort of usage this new Magreb community is making of welfare, housing benefit and other handouts. Possibly its way above average – is British state paying for this social transformation? And willingly keeping the immigration door open to new arrivals?

    • Mary Ann

      You wonder! very scientific.

    • Jacobi

      It is quite simple really. Just look at the reproduction rate. Locals in UK, about 1.6 , Muslims in my supermarket in UK, about 3. 2. Average age, say about 7. Therefore, in 11 years, not all that long you know , Muslims will be in a majority amongst the young. Simple really!

      • Paul B

        Does not compute.

  • The BBC is broadcasting unmitigated propaganda and the Conservative party isn’t worth its name, unless its goal is to conserve Blairism. Our institutions have been overrun by people who are absolutely determined to see a demographic fait accompli, but what to do? Our liberal elite is corrupt and, by any rational definition, treasonous, but are we any closer to a tipping point than we ever were?

    There are people in the Arab world that we should be supporting. This extraordinarily beautiful and brave woman is one. For the rest of it, I am not sure that our version of ‘democracy’ can provide the answers to the problems we face. Its failures effectively led to our loss of independence and great power status by 1941 and we have been lurching along from crisis to crisis ever since.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfWqM1hMTho&feature=youtu.be

    • Scradje

      Lovely woman. They need more like her.

      • Dr. Heath

        There are undoubtedly millions of men and women who agree with her but are unable to say so out loud for fear of being judicially murdered or terrorised in any number of ways. How contemptible must people like this woman find the arguments of the West’s vast hordes of ‘hug a jihadi’ apologist cretins. I wonder if this lady has any idea how enraged our useful idiots would be if they were all forced to listen to her.

        Indeed, how like the odious jobsworth interviewer are our Corbyns, Milnes and Galloways. It reminds me of an elderly Scots widow I met ages ago. This woman had married a Czech pilot [he’d joined the RAF] and, after 1945, moved with him to his homeland. She was a ranting Stalinist lunatic while her Czech neighbours viewed themselves as prisoners in a sort of medium-security gulag owned and managed, by quislings of course, for the Russians. Till her dying day, she was given to foaming at the mouth about all the non-existent virtues of barbarism and ideologically inspired savagery while opposing anything remotely to do with civilisation. I doubt if even the greatest psychologists understand this phenomenon.

        • Scradje

          Top comment doc.
          Sturdy people the Czechs. You in turn remind me of a time when I used to frequent a Czech cafe/bar; the regulars never used to refer to the Russians by name, only as ‘the occupier’.
          Scottish Stalinists? Remember Mick McGahey? In the ‘good old days’ an Aeroflot plane used to touch down at Glasgow, specifically for the purpose of transporting the old commie to somewhere like occupied Bulgaria or Sochi for a nice little beach holiday!

          • Dr. Heath

            And I’m sure that Comrade Nicola will prove in time to have a surprisingly large amount in common with a number of those older role models. Russia’s current Sociopath-in-Chief must long for a return to the time when even civilised nations had a small coterie of chaps like Mick who’d sign up as quislings in the unlikely event that the Red Army ever reached London or Glasgow.

            Didn’t most Czech towns have a Namesti Okupantu unofficially named in honour of their Russian ‘friends’?

          • Scradje

            I am sure they did!

    • Harry Pond

      Brave women.

    • ExSexOffender

      She can come and stay with me anytime…..shexxxxayyyyyy!

    • ExSexOffender

      So that’s what they look like under the tents they wear no wonder their men keep them hidden.

      • Mike

        I used to deal with a Saudi woman, who had happily left Saudi Arabia for good.

        She seemed quite happy making up for lost time in displaying herself, and had the body for it.
        Almost 5 years ago, and I still remember how lovely she looked.

        I think that it was her way of “sticking it to the man”. I certainly appreciated it!

    • Mary Ann

      Would have her message have been so important if she had not been pretty?

      • Stop whining

      • Mike

        Yes, because she makes sense.

        Being pretty is just a bonus, but doesn’t take away from the message.

      • hepworth

        A touch of jealousy perhaps?

      • Stu

        Demonstrating your weapons grade stupidity again eh Mary Ann. She had an important message and is an intelligent women which is more than can be said for you.

      • hobspawn

        Brainless feminist leftards hate attractive intelligent successful women even more than they hate rational white men, and that’s a lot.

    • E.I.Cronin

      What a woman!! Thanks, will be sharing this widely.

  • mikewaller

    I used to love the American “Michael Moore” show in which MM forced politicians to face up to their own hypocrisies. The one I remember best was his going to Newt Gingrich’s constituency which included the National HQ of the US Coastguard and very publicly assuming that Gingrich would favour having that shut down as a desirable way of “getting big government of our backs”.

    I should like to do much the same with dear old Rod. We all know that we have a huge problem which has the potential to make the similarly murderous activities of the IRA and their Unionist equivalents a mere blood-soaked foot-note. However, the problem is what can we do about it. A toxic combination of short-term capitalistic greed, equally short-term labour intransigence and the messy end of empire resulted in millions of folks from other cultures being brought into Europe to augment the workforce. Now, as global industrialisation and the use of robots make the future of this multicultural workforce increasingly problematic, those who cannot find the employment or the societal respect they consider commensurate with their talents, turn in other directions to have their need for a sense of self-worth satisfied. The problem is that with huge numbers already here and millions of others being driven out by tyrants like Putin’s pal, Assad, or failed states, what can we possibly do about it? A nice little TV programme with RL on Europe’s South-Eastern frontier telling the refugees why they should turn back and spelling out in detail the kind of measures necessary to turn back the tide if they fail to do so would very very helpful. He could then be filmed moving amongst those already here telling them why they should go “home” and again detailing measures that would if necessary force them to do so. I am sure that material such as this could well give viewers some insight into the scale of the crisis with which politicians are dealing. Sadly, one supposes that RL is a lot happier just sitting at home banging out his simplistic, populist, claptrap.

    As for kicking the BBC, what a stupid waste of time! As a very astute commentator pointed out decades ago in respect of the dockworkers, “they follow (the communist) Jack Dash in respect of conditions of employment and Enoch Powell in respect of immigration” i.e they made their own minds up. The vast majority of the indigenous population hold similar views on immigration as the dockers and are similarly most unlikely to have those views shift by the BBC’s “let’s be nice to everybody” approach. However I suppose that Beeb-bashing makes Diddums feel better.

    • Gilbert White

      Moore had the hypocritical tables turned upon himself eventually. No Moore?

  • ohforheavensake

    Just wondering. Who’s going to write the article about the appalling hypocrisy of a party that covered up allegations of bullying; you know, the ones that led directly to a young man’s suicide? Rod?

    • The_greyhound

      One can readily see why dhimmis lke yourself are so uncomfortable with any discussion of the murderous trash you, and your like, have been so keen to import into Europe.

  • Stefan Reich

    Why do you think Paris was Islamist? Could have been an inside job.

    • Malcolm Stevas

      You think someone like Hollande actually wanted to expend blood & treasure dropping bombs very expensively on ISIS? Be serious.

  • Toy Pupanbai

    I read somewhere that, ‘The English invented Belgium, to annoy the French’.
    Perhaps they should bomb us?

  • DaviddeAngelis
  • ItwasBlairwotdunnit

    “Eat your wife”? Is that a Freudian penis?

  • Malcolm Stevas

    “A whole programme about the Paris attacks in which three words — Muslim, Islam, jihadi — were not used at any point. The desperation to exculpate the ideology was present long before the bodies had been carried away.”
    Thanks for highlighting this, Rod, though it’s old news – been the same all along. It’s got to the stage where I feel even more like chucking the radio or TV out of the window, and where I am even more reluctant to listen to Question Time or Any Questions since the invited Lefties (plus those in the curiously off-centre audience) will say the same sort of thing, and worse.
    “..the BBC’s coverage throughout was appalling in its cringeing, politically correct, liberal bias”
    I have tended to support the Beeb against its critics in recent years, thinking their complaints about Leftist bias were unfounded, but I’m changing my mind. The right-on PC smug Leftist certainties churned out by the MSM in general and the Beeb in particular are sick-making. I want an end to the licence fee, now.
    “This week it was reported that one in five British Muslims sympathises with Islamic State fighters.”
    Again, nothing new, no surprises, absolutely par for the course. Every poll conducted on this and related topics, certainly since 9/11, reveals exactly the same: it’s terribly reassuring to note that most Muslims are opposed to Islamist terror, but very alarming indeed that a dangerously high proportion of their co-religionists are equivocal at best about anti-West violence or actually sympathise with it.
    We shouldn’t bomb Belgium: apart from being our cousins they do offer some of the best food and beer in Europe. Neither should we bomb Bradford, Luton, Leicester…. etc. But the war should certainly be fought right here in Europe, against the enemy within.

    • Alexsandr

      cancel you licence, unplug the ariel from your telly, connect your computer to your telly with an HDMI cable and just watch catchup. quite legal. Remember the licencing authority has no right to enter your home. just tell them to go away.

    • Alexsandr

      Actually one in 5 say they sympathise with Daesh. But how many were lying. Taqiyya…

      • Jacobi

        “how many are lying”
        About 40% of those polled are lying, who say they didn’t sympathise. In other words about another 20% of the total that is 40% altogether. No that can’t be right. A lot more than that!

    • TheJustCity

      There was a weasely programme on the World Service early this morning which downplayed and attempted to extenuate this poll. One brilliant idea advanced was that had the question been posed with different wording (supplanting ‘sympathize’ with ‘support’) then the results would have been more favourable.

  • David Prentice

    * The BBC’s lukewarm response could have something to do with the fact that their head of religion is one Aaqil Ahmed, Muslim, naturally, who I suspect, monitors their news output and likely fires off emails to people he considers to be “stepping over the mark”.

    * The point, though, is that Syria facilitates the delusion that these attacks are imposed upon us all by an isolated external agency Yes, Rod, like the BBC/Guardian weasel word “radicalisation”, as in, the mysterious process whereby something generally bad is done (by an unnamed external agency) to a previously good and wholesome person.

    * You don’t follow your thoughts about the BBC to their logical conclusion – that it is a willfully malign organization that has become, as the Americans might say, a clear and present danger to the wellbeing of this country.

  • Jackthesmilingblack

    Why didn’t the U.S. bomb Saudi Arabia? Most of the 9/11 hi-jackfrom there. Pre-supposing you still believe the Authorised version. Which I for one, don’t.
    Jack, the Japan Alps Brit. Currently wintering in warmer climes.
    “Take up the white man’s burden….”

    • Jacobi

      I only read the Douai.

  • Jacobi

    I’m not entirely sure that the French should bomb Brussels. Well at least not indiscriminately. Molenbeek, yes, Scharebeek also, but not surely not Berchem, or Woluwe St Lambert, a commune I am particularly fond of.
    And of course they should give proper notice the Belgian Government, assuming that there is one, before they do so.

    Right, now back to the question of what parts of the wife I can eat if I get hungry. She says the issue is not pressing since she has been to the supermarket recently, and she is more concerned wit Downton or whatever rubbish is on..

    • Mike

      Taking out Molenbeek would be effective indirectly, in that the Belgians might take their problems seriously for a change, and stop them spreading.

      Sadly, this isn’t supposed to be done in “civlised” countries.

      • Jacobi

        Don’t forget Scharebeek, overlooked by the press but just as bad. But Please not Woluwe St Lambert. My favourite Brusseloise restaurant is there. And my wife would be more comfortable with that compromise!

  • ExToryVoter

    Not sure about bombing Brussels Rod. If the RAF were serious about degrading the jihadi threat to the UK, they would be better off taking out Luton or Dewsbury.

  • evad666

    Can we all agree on a Friday for a Crystalnacht?

  • sidor

    The terminology is incorrect: it shouldn’t be bombing, it is called demolition. But this has to be done in a proper way: first certain branches of Islam should be criminalised, the preachers jailed and expelled to their native KSA, and then the respective mosques demolished by military engineers.

  • saffrin

    Bomb Belgium?
    Starting with the EU’s head office Rob.

  • ecaw

    It is heartening that Rod Liddle is allowed to say as much of the truth as he does, but even he uses the weaselly euphemism “Islamists”. Hopefully he understands that Islamism is just a natural outgrowth of Islam. Sadly it will take more atrocities by devout followers of the original “Islamist” Mohammed before the false distinction is treated with as much disdain as “Islamophobia”. How many atrocities? Probably several in places like Woolwich or the London tube but I dare say one at the offices of the BBC would do it.

    Further details here: https://ecawblog.wordpress.com/2014/03/28/islamism-or-islam/

    • WTF

      I would use the Andrew Neil expression but its probably moderated out !

  • sidor

    Seriously speaking, nothing can be done. The French idiots, starting from de Gaulle, organised mass immigration of the Maghreb Arabs in expectation that they will be assimilated as other groups of immigrants, or those ethnic minorities living in the territories annexed by France, like the Kelts in Bretagne, the Italians in Corsica or the Germans in Alsace. After 50 years we can see that these attempts miserably failed. They instead created Arabic-speaking ghettos where the French law cannot reach. The third generation of these Arab immigrants join Jihad and bomb Paris to express their hatred to the French culture.

    Let’s face the fact: France have several millions of Arabs which form a distinct ethnic minority with no perspective of assimilation. Possible actions: (a) settle them in a separate territory, with guarded border (b) expel them back to the historical homeland (c) reduce their legal rights and treat them as adversaries, like the US did with the Japanese during WWII.

    Any other suggestions?

    • Morseman

      The Germans in Alsace? Surely you mean the loyal French citizens of Alsace, many of whom speak a German dialect as well as French.

      • The_greyhound

        You seem to have missed some, equally worthy of deletion.

    • Guest 1

      The French could take a leaf out of the Arab Algerians’ book, and expel all Arab-identifying people. The precedence is there, and, oddly, the BBC and its ilk, rarely, if ever, refer to the ethnic cleansing of the Pieds Noirs. Nor, for that matter, of the long-established Jewish communities in the Arab world. Both of which events happened in my lifetime, and I’m not that old.

      • jmjm208

        Just like the BBC never refer to the ethnic cleansing of saviletown (a district of Dewsbury) by muzzie gangs who were allowed to get away with it by cowardly coppers.

        • Guest 1

          Yes, and that happened in my son’s lifetime. My grandsons are under 7 – what, in God’s name, will happen in their lifetime? In their homeland.

          • jmjm208

            I won’t give my true name for obvious reasons, but I have 7 grandsons under 5.

            My youngest Son and 3 grandsons live a mile from saviletown.

            It is a muzzie ghetto where the women walk around in black sacks and from where 2 suicide bombers came.

          • Guest 1

            Those with children probably need to move. I know that’s a form of defeat, but, at the moment, it is the safest course. Thirty five years ago, when I was in my late teens, I lived near Keighley, and used to go there often. It was only beginning then, but those who did raise the issue of colonization were, at best, lagged out of court. It’s al turned out well, hasn’t it?

  • Morseman

    Dear Mr. Liddle:

    A person who is British by birth cannot be refused entry to the UK and have his passport withdrawn – even if he went to Syria to participate in what you have been describing.
    Regards,
    A. Reader

    • Guest 1

      Dear Reader,
      The constitutional theory is that Parliament is sovereign. In consequence, it can pass any law it wishes.

      • Morseman

        Well, hmm, that would be unprecedented. It would mean singling out one religious or ethnic group for loss of its citizenship by act of parliament, thus creating stateless persons, an act utterly forbidden under international law.

        • Guest 1

          Hardly unprecedented – Europe was awash with stateless exiles from what had been the Russian Empire after 1917, and particularly after the red victory in the civil war. The same thing happened in the aftermath of the Second World War, for example, Poles, Lithuanians, Letts, Estonians, Bessarabians, Ukrainians, and others who were exiled in the UK, Canada, Australia, & the USA were all, at least initially, stateless. Neither would it mean singling out one religious or ethnic group, as the focus would be on terrorism and ideology.

          • sidor

            After WWII Canada took several thousands of East Europeans so-called “refugees” who voluntarily joined the German army and committed a lot of horrible crimes against the civilian population, particularly Jews. This is an interesting parallel with the current Syrian “refugees” many of whom fought for ISIS.

          • Guest 1

            Indeed. I suppose the key difference is that those ‘refugees’ didn’t then turn on Canada. That makes it even more of an interesting comparison.

        • The_greyhound

          If someone renounces their British citizenship, by for instance taking up arms against us, then they and their family should be stripped of their British passports. If you insist upon this tosh about stateless persons, then the only viable option would be to shoot them out of hand. Which, most would agree, would be equally acceptable.

          • Morseman

            Where you and I differ is that I am stating the legal position and am trying to keep my emotions and outrage out of the equation.
            The law may be tosh but it is the law.

          • WTF

            The point here is that many of us want the law to be changed to enable revocation of citizenship in these circumstances. It has nothing to do with emotions.

          • The_greyhound

            I have engaged no emotion: I am setting forth a perfectly rational solution.

            Sentimentalizing over the lives of unwanted, unproductive, uneducated savages is emotional irrelevance.

            And laws can be changed, or in n the case of pretended “international law” abrogated.

          • smoke me a kipper

            Why their families? That is common punishment, and clearly illegal in any decent democractic society

          • woohoo002

            Look at all those Muslims where the children went to Syria,they went to the same Mosques and they are just as radicalised.
            They were just clever at hiding it while on the BBC and claiming apologies and compensation from the police.

          • Mr B J Mann

            But it is apparently against their uman rites to separate them!

        • WTF

          No, it would mean singling out criminals or more accurately traitors as the legislation would be drafted in general terms that anyone who goes off to wage wars against the interests of the UK would be deemed a traitor and therefore could be subject to having their passport revoked. That would not constitute “singling out one religious or ethnic group” as you put it.

          • Morseman

            There is existing legislation to arrest, detain in custody, prosecute, convict and imprison such people upon their return.
            I don’t disagree with your description but am interested in the law and not so much our emotions and outrage.

          • WTF

            All that I and others have suggested is passing legislation to enable revocation of citizenship and that would be within the law. I’m not interested in emotions or outrage either but just a legal way of stripping traitors of their citizenship. If the traitors come from one ethnic group then so be it but hasn’t that been the case for centuries, if the cap fits etc !

          • smoke me a kipper

            Who determines what is in the interests of the UK?

          • WTF

            Simple, in a democracy it should be the majority of the electorate.

          • William Brown

            smoke me a kipper does not like the way democracy works. I’m surprised he is not out marching for something, or other.

          • William Brown

            Thankfully, not you.

      • smoke me a kipper

        Parliament isn’t sovereign

        • Guest 1

          You will note that I said that, ‘the constitutional theory is…’

    • sidor

      Two remarks.

      1. Concerning the constitutional rights. It is nice to think like you do if you are a professional lawyer. But it is a wrong way to think for a political leader of a democratic country. Teddy Roosevelt, when asked if his acts are consistent with Constitution, answered: “Constitution was created for the people, not the people for Constitution”.

      2. Fortunately, the British legal system is based on precedents. An appropriate precedent was the case of lord Haw Haw, a British journalist working for the Goebbels radio. He was caught in 1945 and hanged, without special legal ceremonies.

      Those British citizens who are fighting for ISIS are definitely worse than lord Haw Haw: he didn’t kill anyone. Hanging should be restored at least as a part of military emergency.

      • hobspawn

        Hanging is too good for them. I would simply parachute them into a country which does implement the type of society that they are fighting for. We need to stop allowing muslims into this country, and start sending them to where they can enjoy sharia unhindered.

        • William Brown

          You advocate the use of parachutes? How bloody liberal, leftie of you…

          • hobspawn

            I am a moderate – thanks for noticing!

          • Mr B J Mann

            Actually, he Soviets experimented with chucking people out of planes at low level wrapped in bales of straw.
            They reckoned they would lose fewer troops that way then letting them float down on namby-pamby capitalist parachutes to be picked off by snipers!

      • Morseman

        William Joyce, alias Lord Haw Haw, was born in Brooklyn, NY, USA an an Irishman and American. Since Ireland was already independent it was arguable whether he could be considered a British citizen.

        Most reasonable people would disagree with your last sentence.

        • sidor

          Let me correct your misperception of the historical facts. Joyce was born to British parents, was a British citizen, lived in Britain since 1921, served in the British army, and was a prominent member of the British Fascist Union.

          It is also interesting: in what way do you think the ISIS butchers are better than lord Haw Haw?

          • Morseman

            1. My father, who lived through the discussions about William Joyce as an adult at the time, had serious doubts about the conviction and execution.
            P.G. Wodehouse made pro-Nazi broadcasts during WW2.

            2. Where did I write that “ISIS butchers are better than Lord Haw Haw?”

            I wish people would be objective and stop misusing these comments columns to provoke and attack others of whom they know nothing.

          • sidor

            Wodehouse was just an ordinary coward. Joyce was a perfect fascist and an ideologically motivated traitor. He got what he deserved.

    • Jacobi

      If he, being of an immigrant family, behaved in a treacherous way and if Parliament decided that such as he could be stripped of their UK nationality, then yes such a person could have his passport withdrawn and be shipped back to from whence he, or his family came from.
      It is Parliament, which has to sole authority to decide this. Not lawyers or anyone else.

      • Morseman

        Let’s try to be objective and follow up on your idea:
        A British citizen arrives in a UK airport or seaport; there is evidence that he has been engaged in terrorism against the UK or British interests.
        We inform him that he has forfeited his British citizenship, we seize his passport, and then…
        He cannot be deported because airlines and shipping are prohibited from transporting him without a passport. Other countries will not accept him anyway.
        This means we would have to create some sort of stateless persons’ camps – concentration camps by another name – where these people would be concentrated to hatch their plots while being fed, clothed, cared for and given medical treatment at the British taxpayers’ expense.
        Is that really the solution?

        • Jacobi

          Your point has already been dealt with extensively in this and other journals.
          Internment, so that true refugees can be separated from religious and other unwanted migrants. The undesirables can then be sent back via these camps to wherever.
          Do remember we are at war. Real war. Got it? All this is normal in war time!

          • Morseman

            No, that is the point. The discussion was about British citizens forfeiting their citizenship.
            Sent back, how, where to, who wants them?
            Perhaps you did not understand my post.
            Got it?

          • Jacobi

            The point has already been made that such immigrants, whether holding British citizenship or not should be required to sign a document rejecting the violent aspects of their religion, such as enslavement and massacre and so on. If they do not then it is reasonable, under Sovereign Parliamentary law, since we are at war, to strip them of nationality and deport.
            On the other hand if they simply agree to peacefully proselytize, without the aid of public megaphones, and outbreed well we can’t reasonably object to that? As to where they go well what about where they came from? But that is another matter.
            Got it?

          • Morseman

            Everyone keeps on about deporting without seriously examining the issue.
            If they are stripped of their citizenship they have no passport.
            They cannot travel.
            If we plan to deport them by military transport with no passport, where do we take them?
            They have no other nationality.
            Got it?

          • sidor

            A simple solution: refugee camps in a nice quiet place like the Western part of Iraq, under the UN supervision, where they can enjoy full beauty of their Sharia laws.

          • Morseman

            Maybe that would work.
            When Archbishop Makarios was stirring up trouble in Cyprus in the 1950s and 60s, we simply put him on a plane and flew him to the Seychelles, where he could sit under a palm tree and contemplate his future.
            Unfortunately, with no empire any more, Britain no longer has the arrogance of imperial power.

          • sidor

            Trouble for whom? Turkey, I presume. And now you are arguing in support of Moslem invasion of Europe organised by the same Turkey. A coincidence? Or any particular reason for this persistently pro-Islamic position?

          • Morseman

            You are completely off beam and are apparently too young to remember the so-called Cyprus Emergency.

            Cyprus was a British colony. This was long before the Turkish invasion of Northern Cyprus in 1974.

            The Greek Cypriot extremists were striving for Enosis – union with Greece – and some were responsible for many terrorist attacks against the British and the Turkish minority on the island. British troops were engaged in combat against the terrorists, especially in the Troodos mountains.

            You should write about things you know instead of repeatedly attacking people whose views you do not understand.

          • sidor

            To make it short, your answer is yes. The British persistent support for Turkey despite the latter’s regular hostility is one of the greatest historic mysteries.

          • Morseman

            The Cyprus Emergency had nothing to do with the recent resurgence of militant Islam. It had to do with combating EOKA, a Greek-Cypriot terrorist organization. Thousands of British National Service conscripts served in Cyprus in those years.
            This is my last response to your deliberate trolling.

          • sidor

            So, thousands of British soldiers were deployed to protect the interest of Turkey and to suppress the anti-Turkish Greek patriots. And this happened just 40 years after Gallipoli. Thanks again for supporting my point. Strange that you don’t see the obvious continuity in the Turkish policy in the area. The same Islamic fascism.

            And what exactly do you mean by trolling? I am not young enough to understand modern jargon. Do you mean that you find it funny?

          • Mr B J Mann

            Not having a passport doesn’t seem to stop refugees travelling wherever they want to go in Europe!

            Perhaps they need to be bombed first to keep things legal?!

          • sidor

            More simple. Certain branches of Islam must be criminalised, those who belong to these sects must be interned and stripped of the citizenship, as enemy agents. Just the same way the US dealt with the ethnic Japanese during WWII.

          • Jacobi

            Sidor,
            That is exactly the point. We are at war. Just as in 39/45 but worse. And it is just not sinking in. It will, sooner or later. I hope not too later!

          • Harryagain

            All very simple.
            We send them back to Syria (Assad’s bit) where they can be tried fro the crimes they committed.
            I feel sure they’d get their desserts.

        • Mr B J Mann

          “while being fed, clothed, cared for and given medical treatment at the British taxpayers’ expense.”

          Why?

          Send them to an abandoned croft in the Orkneys with a bag of seeds and a few goats.

          They like goats!

  • IainRMuir

    “…or Manningham, near Leeds”

    One small point. Manningham is actually part of Bradford. Bradford is near Leeds.

    You could probably justify bombing large parts of Bradford. It would do no more harm to the city centre than inflicted by planners in the 1960s.

  • Cornelius Bonkers

    As you mention Wolf ‘all; Out of psychiatric curiosity I was at the stop-the-war demo on Saturday and was treated to a stream of drivel the likes of which would have done Michael Parkinson in his pomp proud. I thought Mark Rylance was going to break down in his love of humanity until I realised he was “on stage” and thus in his element. I wouldn’t be so forgiving of Tariq Ali who seemed to be calling for the reformation of the Islington archipelago for all those Traitor MPs who disagreed with him…it was truly SCARY particularly as I wasn’t wearing Doc Martin’s boots/shoes…eek

  • Innit Bruv

    “Eating your wife”?
    How about “beating your wife/girlfriend”?
    A few years back Mr. Piggy received a police caution for assaulting his pregnant girlfriend.
    Hardly a poster boy for gender equality.

    • The_greyhound

      Halfwit launches ad hom.

      Hardly a poster boy for rational debate.

      But then craven dhimmis really aren’t interested in rational debate.

      • Innit Bruv

        The comments section of the Spectator is hardly a place for rational debate.

    • Sue Smith

      Somebody pointed out in a newspaper article I read today that misogyny was very much a part of the songwriting of John Lennon, and that he’d decked his wife at a dance (before they were married) because she dared to dance with a friend. Punching women out is something Lennon alluded to his “You Can’t Do That” ….”if I catch you talking to that boy again”. The author believes “Getting Better” from the Sergeant Pepper album is “a sour rant by a malcontent twerp who reckons he deserves a pat on the back because he decided to stop bashing his girlfriend, “I used to be cruel to my woman/I beat her and kept her apart from the things that she loved/Man I was mean ….”.!!!

      Misogyny isn’t just the prerogative of rap music, it seems.

      • Innit Bruv

        I’ve always found Run for your Life on Rubber Soul
        pretty dark as well (Baby I’m determined and I’d rather
        see you dead).
        Doubtless, Lennon was flawed, but he left us, in my opinion, a great body of work.

      • Innit Bruv

        Ps: I’ve just been listening to Getting Better.
        As I thought, the lead singer is Paul McCartney which would suggest that he wrote the song.
        The journalist may have got it wrong.

        • Sue Smith

          That’s interesting, because I don’t know the song myself. I wonder if he meant that Lennon wrote the lyrics? Didn’t he usually play this role? We’ll never know. Even so, I think he was onto something with his general comments about John Lennon.

          • Innit Bruv

            At the beginning many Lennon-McCartney songs were genuine collaborations.
            Later, however, many if not all of their songs were solo efforts ( one notable exception is A Day in the Life which closes Sgt Peppers , the song is made up of three sections, the second of which is a fragment intended for another song written by
            McCartney).
            It is generally assumed that whoever was on vocals
            was the author.
            It is therefore highly unlikely that Lennon would have written Getting Better for McCartney to sing.

          • Sue Smith

            OK; I think you know far more about this than I.

  • Liberanos

    As an infidel, it’s a sobering thought that our continuing security depends on the overwhelming number of muslims in this country not being devout enough to obey the koran’s solemn imperative to destroy the infidel.

  • StrategyKing

    The thesis is well and good, but pretty poor examples used to present it. The fatwa was a joke on an Onion-like satirical website. And the attackers while using the refugee route to get back in, weren’t refugees themselves.

    However, you do get to the crux of the matter in the end, the problem is home grown. Our society is too tolerant of these people and if we don’t change, worse will come for sure.

  • John P Hughes

    Kirsty Wark, whom Rod Liddle refers to above, is past her sell-by date on ‘Newsnight’. Jeremy Paxman could see that he was getting stale and moved on (not before time, and he should have gone 5 years earlier, but he did leave). KW shows the basic truth of the saying that as we age we become caricatures of ourselves. If she wants a future in anything else she should leave Newsnight. But then Emily Maitlis is already getting stale after a much shorter time. Evan Davis is much better on radio.
    Newsnight was a very good programme in its day, but its day was 20 to 30 years ago, when John Tusa and Peter Snow were at the helm. It has had its time and Lord Hall needs to give it a decent burial and replace it with something better.

  • Joseph Hooker

    It is quite OK to eat your wife specially when you have the munchies, the problem starts if you try and bite of more than you can chew. As for the fifth column among us how about conscription to go and fight in Syria? We could form the Royal Islamic Disposable Regiment. Given their predisposition for explosive belts we need not use very expensive bombs, just send them in prepacked with remotely operated detonation devices, and why stop at Syria when Saudi Arabia is funding the unrest.

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