Rod Liddle

Please, Theresa, let Anjem Choudary go and get himself killed

The time to stop these maniacs is when they’re trying to come back into the country – not when they’re leaving

15 November 2014

9:00 AM

15 November 2014

9:00 AM

The news is always grim, isn’t it? Doom and gloom everywhere. And even the news which appears to be good has a dark cloud hovering behind it. For example, we frequently hear reports of British-born jihadis being killed in Syria, either by blowing themselves up in the familiar, traditional manner or being bombed by the Americans. I usually break out some really good white wine and get the neighbours over for a bit of a knees-up whenever this happens — we exult, and sing songs for a while, our cares forgotten. But I have just read that the death rate for our lads in the Islamic State is one every three weeks. That’s pathetic, hugely dispiriting. It will take ages to finish them off, no matter how many more we encourage to go. The job could be done far quicker if we shot them at the airport, on their way out, but the government has moral qualms about this, apparently. They prefer to let them reach their chosen destination, get settled in, and then let someone else kill them. It makes no sense to me.

Then there’s the half-witted radical preacher and Islamist Anjem Choudary, who has just expressed a fervent wish to go and live in the Islamic State. I think that’s an excellent idea. He’s even offered to host a final press conference at Heathrow airport, where he would urge like-minded British Muslims to follow in his footsteps. This would be an enormous service to the British public, worthy of an MBE at the very least. Hell, we’ve knighted Muslim community leaders who supported the execution of Salman Rushdie and believe that Jews made up all that stuff about the Holocaust: here, at last, is one Muslim community leader attempting to make the country a better place for all of us to live in. But Anjem is unable to realise his dream because the Home Secretary will not give him back his passport.

Listen Theresa: you have got things the wrong way around. When these maniacs actually want to leave the country, do everything you possibly can to assist them in their endeavours. This goes for all the — largely Bangladeshi, from the news reports — young jihadis, male and female, heading out to join IS. I’d even go so far as to provide them with the airfare. I don’t want to belabour this point, Theresa, but the time to confiscate their passports is when they try to get back in, capisci? If you can’t shoot them on the way out at least be good enough to stop them coming back.


Still more bad news, lurking behind the good. It was reported earlier this week that the self-proclaimed Caliph of the Islamic State, good old Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, had been killed by an American air strike. But no sooner had I repaired to the wine cellar than we were told that rumours of his death may have been somewhat exaggerated. You build us up, then you knock us down. It was the Iraqi government (the criminally useless one we installed) that announced al-Baghdadi’s demise, killed in a bombing raid on the undoubtedly fragrant city of Mosul. Then it was announced that he was merely injured and that one of his lieutenants, Abu Huzaifa al-Afdnani, had been killed instead. And yet now we can’t even be sure of that. There is supposition that Abu No. 1 is simply pretending to be dead, in the hope that this will deter the Americans from trying to kill him. Lying low, keeping his head down. Even if the savage is indeed dead, there are plenty of other savages lining up to take his place, most of them called Abu. Such as Abu Muslim al-Turkmani — helluva guy, I think he’d do a job for IS. I don’t know where our homegrown savage, ‘Jihadi John’, stands in the IS leadership rankings: there have been pitifully few YouGov polls on the issue.

There’s doublethink on all sides of this appalling and largely western-created fiasco. First we invade Iraq, creating precisely the conditions for IS to prosper. Then, when the protests began against Syria’s despotic President Assad, we give moral and political support to the people who tried to depose him; the people whom we, via the offices of the US air force, are now trying desperately and belatedly to annihilate. The British jihadis now flooding into Syria can be forgiven for being a little confused on this issue, no? One moment the official view is that the rebels are brave and consensual democrats, the next they’re deranged and decapitating religious extremists and terrorists. Never has our vocabulary changed so quickly.

And then there are the pseudo-apologists for the jihadis from the mentally ill liberal left. Take Sara Khan, from the women’s rights organisation Inspire. British Muslims are making their way to Syria, she reckoned, because of an unhelpful narrative in the British press (and beyond). A narrative which paints Muslims as extremists and which castigates the faith for its intolerance towards women and all the other anti-Muslim stuff, which leaves the young British Muslims feeling, er, ‘disenfranchised’. So in order to demonstrate that Islam is instead a tolerant, inclusive and rather lovable creed, these people go off and join the maniacal head-choppers of IS.

Already we are being admonished that jihadis who return from Syria with their limbs intact after a few months of alfresco decapitating and black-flag waving should be gently rehabilitated — perhaps offered diversity awareness courses and the like. Don’t let them back in, Theresa. Let them go, but don’t let them back in.

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Show comments
  • Rik

    Nice one Rod a perfect summary of the situation,what are the odds the posturing swine Choudary makes his claims safe in the knowledge that May has his passport.We should call his bluff forthwith and return his passport.It is a clear win/win either we are rid of this despicable man or he is revealed as a gutless coward.Contributions for a {one way]ticket would not be hard to find.

    • Noa

      It used to be possible to buy a one year passport from the local post office for quick trips abroad. They were abolished about the time unlimited mass immigration became the official, but still unannounced policy of successive Conservative and Labour governments. Time to re-introduce these useful devices for foreign travel. And forward the details to the Syrian and Iraqi governments.

      • Jackthesmilingblack

        “It used to be possible to buy a one year passport from the local post office for quick trips abroad.” I don’t remember that. International Driving Permit, sure. Main Post Offices really should be able to issue British passports instead of the present rigmarole. Here in Japan (stop me if you’ve heard this before) you simply visit the local ward office. Photo shop round the corner, present the documents, seven working days tops. Pay the money when you pick up the passport. No summer holiday backlogs. So do the obvious for a change HMG.
        Jack, Japan Alps

        • Scotty1965

          The one year passport did exist, I still have mine from the year before they were abolished.
          If I remember rightly they were only valid for travel within the EU so wouldn’t be much use to our would-be Jihadi “chums” wanting to go and commit holy suicide. 🙁

          • Hexhamgeezer

            It wasn’t just the EU or EEC as it was but there was a list on the back of European countries it was valid for. Handy for Med holidays but no good for further afield.

          • Gibraltar, the EEC, the EFTA, Malta and Cyprus. I am not sure about the Soviet Union or the Warsaw Pact Countries. I was never actually old enough to ever own one issued either with me named or in my own name though.

          • Jackthesmilingblack

            “If I remember rightly they were only valid for travel within the EU”
            AKA security clearance for Disneyland.

        • But why should you?! You are a Japanese, and you only pretend to be British on the Spectator for trolling purposes! What do you mean by “even UKIP” in a previous post a few days ago, for a start?! You, as a Japanese who live in Japan anyway, are no more British than Anjem Choudary!

          • jjjj

            Thank you! I thought I was the only one who thought he was trolling. I think he has a screw loose, quite frankly!

          • Jackthesmilingblack

            What a break, Mad Jock McNutter in your corner puts you in the loser’s corner. For the last decade, literally hundreds of times he’s asserted that I’m Japanese. This really doesn’t speak well for his sanity. And anyone sufficiently gullible to buy into his drivel needs to take a reality check. So if the cap fits, put it on.
            Jack, the Japan Alps Brit

          • Jackthesmilingblack

            A vote for George is a vote for ignorance, stupidity and bigotry. But you Muppets aren’t voting for him, are you? You’re voting against me. But that’s Brits for you; hypocrites to a man.
            Jack, the Japan Alps Brit.

          • All right, if you are really as British as you claim, then prove it: The Liberal Democrats, the Conservatives and UKIP: pick one, and one only; and give a half-plausible justification. I know that you can’t, of course.

          • Jackthesmilingblack

            One major advantage I have arguing with a deranged ignoramus like you (and anyone gullible enough to support you) is that I know 100% that I’m right, just I know 100% that you’re wrong. No ifs, no buts. “half-plausible justification” of what?
            Jack, the Japan Alps Brit

          • A person who is able to string up near-perfect sentences, yet unable to actually read standard English! Obviously Asperger-thick as thieves!

          • Jackthesmilingblack

            That’s a description of you, isn’t it George? Except for the “near-perfect sentences” obviously.

          • Jackthesmilingblack

            I watched that Rain Man film the other day with Dustin Hoffman and Tom Cruise.
            But for the life of me, I couldn’t work out which one was the retard.

        • Donald Sanver

          If we only had proper border controls and nationality laws like Japan has we wouldn’t be in the mess we are.

          • Jackthesmilingblack

            Strict border controls are equivalent to the night club with twenty-pound cover charge. It keeps out the riffraff. The plus is that when you do win through (which can take literally years) you are a rather exclusive member of society, albeit on the periphery. Back in the 1970s, Japan’s border controls were far stricter. Now the up-market watering holes in Tokyo are wall-to-wall non-Japanese speaking expats, often financial consultants or similar parasites.
            Jack, Japan Alps

          • I am going to ask you again: Are you a Japanese?! Do you live in Japan?! Were you born in Japan?! If so, what business of yours in cheering the Lib Dems and the Cons?!

          • Jackthesmilingblack

            How many times do you need telling, retard?
            I’m not Japanese.
            I do live in Japan.
            I was not born in Japan.
            I take an interest in UK politics (among other aspect of UK culture) because I’m British.
            Have you finally got it now?
            Jack, the Japan Alps Brit

          • You are only British because you say so. Why should we believe you?!

          • Jackthesmilingblack

            So don’t believe the obvious, you’re the loser. Nobody more so.

          • All right, pick one (or you are not British): The Liberal Democrats, the Conservative Party and UKIP. You can’t, and I know you can’t! Give it up!

          • Jackthesmilingblack

            “Why should I believe you?” Not every one shares your paranoia, fortunately.

          • Making 2 replies to one comment: Obviously mentally ill. But then you have no problem with it, or with your own made-up words, made-up terms and made-up slogans!

        • Noa
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        • jjjj

          ‘(stop me if you’ve heard this before)’

          Stop, I’ve heard it all before. Oh…too late.

          You’re British? So why do you go on and on about ‘my Britisher friends’, like a Yank?

          • Jackthesmilingblack

            Live internationally, think internationally. OK, as you were.
            Jack, Japan Alps

          • Not even Americans under 100 really say things like that! That is just one of those one-liners he nicked from a very old episode of Monty Python. They must had been used extensively a few decades ago to teach children abroad English! But then most of his posts are blatant wind-ups!

            He was amusing at first, but he gets tiring after 10 of his (like an unfunny comedian who refuses to shut up after he stops being funny after his 10th. or 11th. joke, even being told and being asked to shut up by his audience), and he was at it since the year 2007 (and elsewhere on the WW Wait since 2004), before he was banned from the Telegraph for the last time in 2012 or 2013, eventually finding his way here.

          • Jackthesmilingblack

            Shut it, *itch.

          • jjjj

            Jackie, still acting the Brit?

    • Kennybhoy

      Seconded.

      That problematic fifth paragraph asi8de, this is one of the best articles Maister L has produced hereabouts. Get some Maister L! 🙂

    • Gwangi

      But remember, none of these Muslims who commit atrocities are doing it in the name of Islam. That is the Islamo-paradox des nos jours parroted by ALL politicians, not just the Islamo-appeasing left. It is a two part little ditty that goes something like this:

      If a Muslim does a bad thing – becoming a suicide bomber, a terrorist of any description, a child abuser, a criminal, and Jew-killer – it is not done in the name of Islam, even if that Muslim says it is, even if that Muslim makes a film clearly stating he’s about to blow himself up and kill the unbelievers because that is his duty as a Muslim.

      If a Muslims does anything good – gives to charity, behaves as an upright citizen, obeys the law, contributes to society – then that IS being done in the name of Islam, which, as we are constantly lectures by the al-BBC, is a word that means ‘peace’ (well, actually it means Submission, but who’s to argue with the absolutely 100% totally and completely impartial BBC eh?)

      I wonder if any other political or religious groups can have their own paradox too? So if a neo-fascist kills an ethnic, it is nothing to do with his Nazi beliefs, but if he helps an old lady cross the road and gives to charity and loves his mum, it is all because of his neo-fascism, a word that means ‘peace’ too (actually it refers to a bundle of Roman axes, but who am I to nitpick eh?)

    • Zanderz

      Rod makes a good point about killing them here. They are essentially fighting a proxy war against the UK. Back in the day some of our guys would have already sorted these people out, Gibraltar style, from the back of a transit.

  • beloved2

    I am think Rod might have a point. Why not allow those who want to go and fight in a foreign war go and do so.? Used to be called exile I think. On departure, get them to sign the appropriate document saying they know they can never return, are of sound mind, not coerced etc. Allow a cooling off period of. a month or so, and the chance to consult a legal adviser to keep the process tidy. I’m personally in favour of those billboards the Home Office must still have in the basement. Just change the wording a bit. ‘Dont like living here? Feel called to fight somewhere else.? We can help.’

    • laurence

      Excellent idea. Perhaps a poster campaign with some hook-handed, bearded nut and the caption: ‘Your Caliph Needs You’.

    • Agrippina

      ‘Don’t like living here, wear pyjamas all day, your women in black sacks from head to foot, girls shouldn’t be educated, married your cousin and have a disabled child, you believe you are in the 11th Century, modern world getting you down, can’t speak the language.

      Contact us, we can guide you to the right place, this way please.

  • Tilly

    Yes Rod the news is bleak, which is why its important to spread sunshine, humour and be creative but clearly not today, Byron
    of the blogosphere, of which you seem to be.

    The holocaust did happen, does anyone suppose it couldn’t happen here. That Islam will not become more and more dominant
    and squeeze Christianity out. Those Muslims living here have no
    loyalty to this country, that dispicable man and his ilk should leave, why on earth are those with such murderous ideology allowed to live amoungst the civilized. In fact we must insist they
    all leave and not hold the viper to our breast.

    • Jackthesmilingblack

      “The holocaust did happen”

      You obviously mean the Jewish Holocaust. Sure, but it’s the mass gassing followed by mass cremation claims that I query. That and the numbers claimed, because to over-simplify, the facilities at say Auschwitz Crematoria II were simply not adequate. They were built for individual creation in a coffin, and the ash handed to grieving relatives. As said relatives were on track to get identical treatment, it really is something of a mute point. German efficiency would surely warrant conveyor belts and a blast furnace. So I suspect Britain’s Psychological Warfare Department over-egged the pudding.
      Research it yourselves, Britisher pals.

      • rodliddle

        Christ help us.

        • Tilly

          My thoughts as well Rod.

        • Jackthesmilingblack

          You’re on your own, Rod.
          Now I can’t prove that God and Mr, Jesus Christ don’t exist, but I don’t have to. You’re the one peddling after-life insurance.

        • Jackthesmilingblack

          “Hold on, this is waiting to be approved by The Spectator”
          So predictable. You don’t attract flak till you’re over the target.

          • jjjj

            You are really off your rocker aren’t you? In your first post you suddenly pretend to be British as if people here are not wise to your tricks. Then, ‘just like that’ (Tommy Cooper), you revert back to ‘Britisher pals’. Finally, you engage in Holocaust revisionism. Troll.

          • Jackthesmilingblack

            You’re not related to mad Jock McNutter are you? The deranged autistic cripple from Rochdale.
            Of course I’m British you thick *itch. And I say this with all due respect.
            Jack, the Japan Alps Brit

          • jjjj

            You moronic *unt, you really don’t know the difference between men and women, right? Let me teach you: *itch is the female. Capisch?

          • Jackthesmilingblack

            Then stop arguing that black is white.
            Think about it; it’ll sneak up on you.

      • Grace Ironwood

        My father went in at the end of the war and saw with his own eyes.
        I have researched it myself and had a look at the material in David Irving’s court case.

        Many people have their own reasons for being holocaust deniers.
        I’m not interested in what yours are.
        You are retailing ugly lies and propaganda.

        • Jackthesmilingblack

          Here we go, dear Papa’s war stories. Typhus was rife in the camps and at the end of the war, supplies including medicines were severely disrupted. So bodies everywhere. It’s the mass gassings followed by cremations I’m calling attention to.
          Motive in maintaining the Holocaust industry? Israel benefits to the tune of US$3.0 bil a year (US/Germany) plus intangible benefits such as ignoring UN resolution and vetoes with impunity.
          As Israel increasing becomes a pariah nation, so the notion that some aspects of the Authorised version of the Holocaust were “exaggerated” will gain traction.
          Just as well this isn’t a popularity contest, or I might have to start being nice to closed-minded, gullible rubes who so instinctively side with Authority, they would literally march into the camps before they realised everything wasn’t entirely kosher.

          • jjjj

            ‘Here we go, dear Papa’s war stories.’

            My my, what scum you are ‘Jack’. Feeling sorry that your Hugo Boss dressed heros didn’t win the war? Ah…diddums.

          • Jackthesmilingblack

            If you weren’t so blinkered you’d realise the figures simply don’t add up. And it’s “heroes” by the way. But that simply proves you’re British. But in any event, thanks for the third bite of the cherry.
            Does the Authorised version of the Holocaust really hang together when exposed to pragmatic analysis? Authorised version being that prisoners (mostly European Jews) were sent to the camps by train, and most went straight to the gas chambers. After which the bodies were immediately cremated.
            Keep in mind that Auschwitz is the Holocaust “flagship” and without the gassing/cremation part, all you have is another 20th century mass murder/genocide.
            Limiting to Auschwitz, Crematorium #2
            Official data show that some 500,000 were gassed/cremated between spring 1943 and November 1944. A period of 20 months (max.), 610 days, approx.
            #2 Crematorium had five ovens, three “muffles” per oven (15 muffles). Clearly this was designed for individual cremations in a coffin. Somewhat absurd to imagine that ashes were going to be handed to grieving relatives.
            Assume a body takes an hour to cremate. Sure, you could “double up”, two bodies in each muffle by dispensing with coffins, but it would take twice as long with essentially no fuel saving. Note well that the muffles found not accommodate two bodies lengthways.
            Bottom line, the cremation process was a serious bottleneck. The Authorised version would work only were it claimed that the bodies were buried in pits. But a fudge like that would discredit the entire story (myth). Provoking the comment; “So what else isn’t entirely Kosher?”
            So do the Math:
            15 bodies cremated per hour (or 30 per two hours)
            360 per 24-hour-day period
            219,600 cremated in 610 days
            This is assuming absolutely zero downtime (repairs, parts replacement, fuel shortages, shift change over …). Even with German efficiency that’s a bit of a stretch.
            To gas 500,000 at up to 2,000 a time, at least 250 separate gassings would be required. However, even working to full capacity it would take 5.5 days to cremate the bodies. To process the alleged number (500,000) within the stated time frame (610 days) would require a gassing every 2.44 days. But with the facilities available it would have taken 5.5 days to cremate 2,000 bodies.
            And what about the fuel required? Train loads, even ship loads, but arial recognisance photographs show nothing like this.
            So step back and review the Katyn Forest massacre: Russian murderers handed the Nazis an open propaganda goal. So to to muddy the water, spurious claims of Nazi mass killings were made. And when the bodies couldn’t be found, the Psychological Warfare Executive came up with cremation to account for no bodies being found.
            You’re being played Britisher pals.
            Jack, Japan Alps

      • vieuxceps2

        “creation in a coffin,mute point”-Ah.if only it were……..

      • Jackthesmilingblack

        Britisher pals, in the interest of historical research, you might want to be aware of documents recently unearthed in the British archives relating to the Second World War period. Specifically I refer to the handwritten notes on a relevant document made in 1944 by Victor Cavendish Bentinck (Lord Bentinck of Portland, 9th duke) as head of the Psychological Warfare Executive, and I quote:
        “We’ve had a good run for our money with this gas chamber lie. But we really have to be a bit careful, because eventually it’s going to be exposed. So we need to distance ourselves from that story now we’ve set the hare running”.
        Part of British propaganda was to convince anyone who would listen that the Nazis were guilty of the most despicable crimes, so it’s hardly surprising that occasional they “egged the pudding”. Seems reasonable to conduct research to decide if the British Psychological Warfare (PWE), “made that bit up”.
        Now consider the ramifications and you’ll begin to grasp why “nobody wants to go there”.
        You might want to copy and paste this before the Spectator’s heavy handed Mods get to work,
        Jack, Japan Alps

        • Gerhardt Kippets

          That supposed quote was concocted by Irving and is much loved by Muslims and their apologists. Oddly enough nobody else has ever seen the “handwritten notes”; do you suppose the nefarious Hebrews destroyed them?

          • Jackthesmilingblack

            Here’s something you might have a little more difficulty dismissing:
            “For decades this room in the crematory building at the Auschwitz main camp has been shown to many hundreds of thousands of tourists as an execution “gas chamber” in its “original state.” In fact – and as now authoritatively acknowledged – this “gas chamber” is actually a postwar reconstruction.” Built by the Poles in 1948. So in fact nobody died in the gas chambers shown to the tourists.

            And note the way the numbers of victims has been revised down over the years: 6,000, 4,50,000, … 1,900,000 million and falling. Which surely make the curator of the Auschwitz Museum a Holocaust denier.
            Compare with the Auschwitz death books recently released by the Russians (admittedly incomplete, not covering the entire period) which give a figure of 135,000.
            Bottom line, something doesn’t add up.
            Jack, Japan Alps

    • Icebow

      The relative breeding rate worries me more than anything.

      • Tilly

        Yes indeed some people have awfully large families and bring over relatives and some send their benefits ( taxpayers money ) back to their homeland to support those back home. So on every level we are treated as mugs.

  • beenzrgud

    Couldn’t have said it better myself Mr Liddle. We don’t need these savages in our country, we have enough problems as it is. As for Anjem Choudary, I’d gladly chip in for him and all his chums to go and live somewhere else. I’d also gladly chip in for a few daisy cutters to drop on them once they had arrived, we don’t want them creeping back now do we. It makes me nauseous to think that we pay to keep scum like Choudary whilst he spouts his bile against us.

    • Tilly

      No we don’t want these savages here. Rod is absolutely
      right, we’ll pay for the airfare and send them to their deathly
      fate.Which they all seem to want.

      • Alexsandr

        ill even buy him 72 raisins.

        • ugly_fish

          Nice one – but not many people know about that. Textual analysis and the obscure origins of the Muslim holy book need to publicized more to counter the widely-held erroneous belief that it was actually something to do with a guy named Mo, rather than having its roots in Syriac Christian texts.

        • Tilly

          Very good.

        • redsquirrel

          i don’t get it?

          • Grace Ironwood

            redsquirrel.
            A recent scholar-translator has suggested that “white virgins” could be more accurately translated as “white raisins”

            Had to go into hiding to avoid the time-honoured Islamist-style of “debate”.

          • redsquirrel

            ha, thanks grace. it just gets more bizarre doesn’t it?

          • Gwangi

            Apparently, raisins can be poisonous to cats, and even prove fatal if eaten in large quantities. Is that why Muslims never have pet cats?

          • Liberanos

            I’ve heard this before, but it doesn’t seem to explain the many koranic references to priapism to enable the blessed ones to cope in the eternal gardens.

          • wordfromthewise

            The ’72 virgins’ every sex starved moslem looks forward too upon becoming a martyr for islam is said to be mistranslated and in fact means either ‘white raisins’ or ‘jars’.

          • Ivan Ewan

            Raisins with large, round… eyes. And possibly other large round things. Raisins which are shy, and as close to ‘coquettish’ as translation from classical Arabic can get.

            Those are some darn strange raisins.

          • Jackthesmilingblack

            Face it, that’s the closest most of them are going to get to the home comforts.

        • Grace Ironwood

          Smile. 🙂

        • wordfromthewise

          Or it might be ‘jars’; the one thing it isn’t is virgins.

    • Marvin

      Will the ECHR force us to send him his benefits to Syria? FRY the PIG!

  • Jim

    This is all just common sense. It’s extremely sad and very damaging that our leaders can’t bring themselves round to this position.

    • get this: it’s in large part because kipper nutters make it impossible to do so. look at the ravings on this site about muslims, sajid javid and the extrapolations about tower hamlets and rotherham. racist kippers are the other side of the mentally ill liberal left coin, and between the two sides no sane conversation is possible.

      • Jim

        Nonsense of the highest order.

        • yes, that’s an argument. but look around you Jim. e.g. Tilly, below gets 14 upvotes for this:

          “Those Muslims living here have no loyalty to this country, that dispicable man and his ilk should leave, why on earth are those with such murderous ideology allowed to live amoungst the civilized. In fact we must insist they all leave and not hold the viper to our breast.”

          and 9 upvotes for lennoxlad:

          “I’d go further than Rod. I’d encourage all those “peaceful” Muslims who don’t speak English, marry their first cousins and spend their entire lives in inner city ghettos to go as well. Just what is it they bring to this country?”

          and from AJH1968

          “Interesting to see how an individual who openly advocates treason, and bloody mayhem is treated in such a calm and deferential manner. The only reason for this is to confirm the dubious mantra that the vast majority of Muslims have no interest in adhering to he’s odious ideology. It is not for us to say that the vast majority of Muslims do not support he’s ideology, it is rather for Muslims to make that statement with word and deed.”

          The fact is, kippers are aching for a ‘reckoning’ with the muslim population of this country, and that’s not something a decent party can be a part of.

          • Jim

            So because some people on a website have expressed a view which you find unappealing, that means our leaders can’t adopt the common sense position?
            Hmmm.

          • Agrippina

            No, he is one of lovely lyntons friends, on here trying to drum up support for cammy and dissing UKIP.

          • Kennybhoy

            Bullseye!

          • Jim

            Thanks for that insight.

          • MaSek12

            Please do not upset him.. He has still got his homework to do and he has school on Monday.

          • RebelWitch

            I think you forgot to take your medication…..

          • Alexandrovich

            I agree, it’s appalling…should’ve got loads more upvotes, shouldn’t they.

          • ArchiePonsonby

            Nothing wrong with any of those comments! THEY WANT TO KILL US, IDIOT!

          • AJH1968

            At some stage of your life you must have had a spine or perhaps you never did.

          • no, i never had a spine, i was never even brave enough to abuse people anonymously on blog sites.

          • Jim

            That must be why you can’t answer my question.

          • Jim

            “kipper nutters”
            “racist kippers”
            “mentally ill”
            “no sane conversation”
            Is that what passes for not abusing people anonymously?
            What was your real name again?

            Humbug.

          • AJH1968

            Brilliant Jim! However do not expect an answer from the hypocritical Jellyfish; at least one that makes sense.

          • Christian

            Islam is unlike any other religion. You are aware of this, aren’t you?

          • greggf

            Perhaps you didn’t read Rod Liddle’s piece above ukip, which is as clear a “reckoning” as anything with the added bonus that we, the public, don’t need to get caught up. In fact it’s sort of taking place a we post….
            And by the way, after Rotherham etc., which party is “decent” these days?

      • wudyermucuss

        kipper nutters –
        Insulting to the millions who support UKIP and the millions who suffer mental illnesses.

        ravings – usually lucid,cogent,rational arguments against an ideology that overtly,clearly,fiercely opposes our most fundamental ideas.
        It is you who are raving.

        extrapolations – Rotherham:racially selective mass rape;it would be delusional to extrapolate nothing from such a savage horror.
        Tower Hamlets:mass corruption/vote fraud;again,why can nothing be extrapolated from this,eg,the importation of foreign norms of electoral fraud?

        racist kippers – Resisting enforced mass immigration,enforced multiculturalism,the occupation of many parts of our country is not racist.
        Dismissing the wishes of one indigenous majority however,is.

      • helicoil

        Utter drivel

      • Kennybhoy

        “look at the ravings on this site about muslims, sajid javid and the extrapolations about tower hamlets and rotherham. racist kippers are the other side of the mentally ill liberal left coin, and between the two sides no sane conversation is possible.”

        A not indefensible position but this

        “get this: it’s in large part because kipper nutters make it impossible to do so.”

        is utter caca! 🙁

        The insanity that is left-liberal self-hatred and the cupidity of the right-wing Saudophiles pre-date UKIP by decades! Jesus wept the most succinct appraisal of the former psycho-pathology was written by George Orwell in 1941 while we were engaged in an existential struggle!

        “England is perhaps the only great country whose intellectuals are ashamed of their own nationality. In left-wing circles it is always felt that there is something slightly disgraceful in being an Englishman and that it is a duty to snigger at every English institution.”

        • i’m not ashamed of my nationality, i’m ashamed of kippers.

          • Alltaxationistheft

            The shame of a shameful man is praise indeed

          • Caps Lock

            You should be ashamed of yourself! Idiot.

      • Grace Ironwood

        I think you have got the cause and effect the wrong way around, UKIPIYUWT .Rather like the Islamist apologists.

      • Bumble Bee

        if you do not like our racism, may I suggest you find your way to Heathrow, and from there you go and settle in a more tolerant and open minded and non racist muslim country

        you will not be missed, quite the contrary, the more of your kind we manage to get out, the better future for our children!

  • Or better yet, why doesnt the British govt drop a JDAM bomb on his turbaned head?

    • Icebow

      That’s silly. It’s not a turban.

  • philiphuw

    All good points apart from one; this is not a “largely western-created fiasco”. These head-choppers would not now be benevolent peace-loving philosophers if we had never existed. We simply must stop blaming ourselves when people set out to murder other human beings in the name of (one version of) their deranged death-cult.

    • WimsThePhoenix

      I think he meant that the fiasco was the one created by Western support of mad Islamofascists wanting the “democratic” right to replace a secular dicatator with an Islamic totalitarian theocracy, on the specious grounds that a demos, rendered mentally incompetent through constant brainwashing from birth, should have the right to demand to be subjugated and oppressed by their religion rather than a sensible, largely benign, dictator.

    • Som Trivedi

      “We simply must stop blaming ourselves”

      I’m not blaming myself, I’m blaming those flaming socialist idiots Blair and Bush who lied to their taxpayers whose money (and blood) they then proceeded to waste on a basket case like Iraq.

      But do be my guest and continue blaming yourself if you were stupid enough to vote for either of them.

      Support the only party that hasn’t sold out, vote UKIP.

      • disqus_JXTaH3N9kU

        George Bush was a socialist ? You really do learn interesting things on here.

    • Grace Ironwood

      Exactly. And who really believes that once Hamas had been given Gaza, that they would have used the opportunity to turn it into the Singapore of the Middle East- even with no Jews around to offend their eyes ?

  • Ngaire Lowndes

    Splendid article, Rod. Well said, sir! Let’s hear it for the Islamist Exodus!

  • Bonkim

    I am almost beginning to feel sorry for the Jihadis Rod – don’t go on – this lot is not worth the newsprint.

    I will second all that you say.

  • Coastliner

    Excellent article – tongue in cheek – but oh so true!

  • AJH1968

    Interesting to see how an individual who openly advocates treason, and bloody mayhem is treated in such a calm and deferential manner. The only reason for this is to confirm the dubious mantra that the vast majority of Muslims have no interest in adhering to he’s odious ideology. It is not for us to say that the vast majority of Muslims do not support he’s ideology, it is rather for Muslims to make that statement with word and deed.

  • crosscop

    As events in Canada proved – if we stop them going to wage jihad abroad then they will wage jihad on our own streets.

  • Lennoxlad

    I’d go further than Rod. I’d encourage all those “peaceful” Muslims who don’t speak English, marry their first cousins and spend their entire lives in inner city ghettos to go as well. Just what is it they bring to this country?

    • laurence

      Why, ‘diversity’, ‘enrichment’ and ‘vibrancy’ for starters, along with a most peaceable and tolerant religion.

      • Jackthesmilingblack

        Experimenting with irony?

  • Tut, tut Rod. There is a court of Yuman Rights that would never allow that. You describe the madhouse well, but left that little factor out. Do we have a government?

    • RobertC

      Yes, in Brussels.

  • sebastian2

    Unless this twerp is working for us (not to be ruled out though I can’t see what possible use he might have) he should be allowed to go. We’ll have a whip-round for his ticket. As soon as he’s out, cancel his passport so he can’t even come back in a box (or boxes).

  • artemis in france

    Haven’t laugted so much in a long time, Rod. Spot on.

  • laurence

    Splendid idea, Rod. Indeed as beloved2 suggests, we should really consider an advertising campaign reviving the posters of the Great War. We could ask Mr Choudray to pose a la Lord Kitchener and proclaim: ‘Your Caliph needs you!’. What about a television campaign too? We could call it ‘Caliphate in Need’. Perhaps featuring a bear, named, say, Abu, dressed in black with a black eye patch and a hook for a paw?

  • Saikourufu

    These maniacs are just… Dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb 😉

    South Park Tells About the Foundation of Mormonism and Joseph Smith
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06jF1EG8o-Q

    St John of Damascus Heresies (on Islam)
    http://www.bombaxo.com/blog/st-john-of-damascus-on-islam/

    • Damaris Tighe

      Brilliant video! I’ve always thought that the origins of Mormonism & Islam are uncannily similar.

      • Grace Ironwood

        Likewise the extreme subordination of women- polygamy, child brides, the idea of The Man as little dictator/priest of the household.
        What’s the difference between getting the New New testament out of one’s hat (literally) and as Mo did- both changed the testimony on whim as events.
        Joseph Smith was not a warlord, but he had a go. Who knows if the early Mormons had been more militarily successful against the government ?

        • Damaris Tighe

          Both are male fantasies given sanction by ‘god’.

    • Tilly

      Why thank you, very informative.I believe Donny Osmond is
      a mormon (and a mouthy yankie) it explains a lot and as for
      Islam , intriguing, very intriguing.

  • Catherine Waterman

    Oh Rod, you made me smile! I’ll share that bottle of wine with you, even though most good news is snatched away from us moments after delivery. May you continue being the most entertaining (and usually dead right) grumpy old man of our era!

    • Rebecca

      Liddle isn’t Victor Meldrew.

      He is a nasty little man who preaches his own breed of hatred and right wing intolerance.

      ‘Hook handed cleric with eye patch’ etc blah blah blah….. Anyone who can write as Liddle does about disabled people, when he has his Sun columnist’s hat on, doesn’t really rate attention on the other suggestions he may have.

      I do wish people would stop fooling themselves that Mr Liddle is anything but deadly earnest in what he preaches.

      • Catherine Waterman

        I know he’s deadly earnest about everything he writes. I don’t agree with all that he says – especially not his belief that there’s no need to ban the burqa in this country. I’ve commented in depth on that particular article/blog of Rod’s, so I don’t want to digress here.

        For the most part, however, I find him amusing even when I disagree with him! I even like his grumpy appearance (sorry if I’m insulting you Rod!)

        I don’t judge people according to the way they vote, whether ‘right wing’ or ‘left wing’. As a non voter, I happen to agree with Rod wholeheartedly in this instance.

        • Rebecca

          New tablet today, so I missed your earlier comments and should were I a little more adept and to be fair to you, have posted this as a general comment.
          Was courteous of you to remain unruffled under apparent personal attack. My thanks, Catherine.

          • Catherine Waterman

            Oh, no problem Rebecca! I’m used to being attacked on here. It never ceases to amaze me how rude some people are. They get a bee in their proverbial bonnet then go on the attack. Or they put up a straw man and attack that instead. For what it’s worth, I didn’t find your post rude at all, actually. You’re entitled to your opinion of Marmite Rod! xx

          • Jackthesmilingblack

            ” I’m used to being attacked on here. It never ceases to amaze me how rude some people are.”
            That’s Brits for you, luv. A nation of bullies. That said, the blue-collar petrol head types are more into problem solving than point scoring. So perhaps it’s the male middle-class that are such a bunch of childish *ssholes. Living in Britain surrounded by people like this would turn a saint into a seriously unpleasant person. And I say this with all due respect.
            Well that’s outlined the problem. The solution’s obvious; hate it and leave it.
            Jack, Japan Alps

        • GraveDave

          Same here.I vote people up for all sorts, be they, white, black, Muslim, Sikh, Christian, Buddhist, liberal luvvies, left wing, right wing, Nazi, Commies…If it’s a good debate and well written I don’t care. And if it makes me laugh – even better.

      • Pootles

        Rebecca: 2 comments 0 votes. Troll?

      • RebelWitch

        Given that the “cleric” in question lost his hand and eye in an explosion when he was involved in terrorism in his home country & what he preached while he was here, I hardly think he’s deserving of any sympathy. As for the lost hand & eye, I wouldn’t call that a disability, I’d call that karma.

        • Tom Allalone

          Karma? Will of Allah, surely?

        • Agrippina

          chicken karma, with a naan bread, delicious.

          • Tilly

            With mango chutney.

          • Jackthesmilingblack

            And a double portion of baked beans.

      • Noa

        So you contend that ritual murder is acceptable if you are a self-disabled islamic preacher?

        You must take very strong toxins indeed from the cistern lid.

      • rodliddle

        I didn’t write about disabled people. I wrote about people who AREN’T disabled claiming disability benefit. Do you understand the difference, you idiot?

      • Tim Hall

        I only hope he is in deadly earnest. I certainly am. Down the hatch, Rod.

      • The_greyhound

        And you are a self-righteous bigot, who clearly doesn’t know what they’re on about, and resents the fact that Mr Liddle is allowed to express an opinion without asking your permission.

      • William_Brown

        “‘Hook handed cleric with eye patch’ etc blah blah blah….. Anyone who can write as Liddle does about disabled people, when he has his Sun columnist’s hat on, doesn’t really rate attention on the other suggestions he may have”.

        This is a wind up, right?… You’re not…..serious are you?

        Are you aware of how that charming man lost his hand and eye? Look it up and then take your faux vexation elsewhere.

      • gerontius

        “I do wish people would stop fooling themselves that Mr Liddle is anything but deadly earnest in what he preaches.”

        Don’t worry Becky I’m not fooling myself: I know he is in earnest.
        As I agree with him I would be pretty upset if he wasn’t.

        Just one small point for Rod to ponder. If we encourage our little jihadis to go to Syria then we are surely under a moral obligation to give their opponents sufficient weapons with which to deal with them.

      • Marvin

        Sounds like you would like to accompany that mutant to Syria. When did you get infected with the same germ.

      • Gwangi

        Actually, he’s a member of the Labour party (correct me if I’m wrong Mr L).

      • HeartShaped

        He wasn’t born disabled you lily livered eejit, he brought it on himself with an act of terrorism, you do understand that don’t you? He hurt himself in cooking up things intended to blow things up, perhaps even blow the pants off the likes of you and your soggy kneed gang of hippies as they went about their middle class business in our “Global City” that used to be called London.

  • SOMARA556

    The only moral problem I have with letting ‘Western’ jihadis leave for the Islamic ‘state’ would be the fact that there are many good people in Iraq and Syria who don’t deserve to have these defective people inflicted on them.

  • RebelWitch

    Who are we to stop these “jihadis” exercising their human rights to travel where they please? If they choose IS, fine, that’s up to them (personally, I think anyone who can join IS knowing that IS are doing was born a savage), but having made their choice of what kind of society they want to live in, they should stick to it.
    “Jihadis” returning to the UK after X amount of time fighting for IS are just treating the whole thing like an adventure holiday. We shouldn’t assist them to do so.

  • Jackthesmilingblack

    Anjem Choudary was a nobody until the media puffed him up.

    • StupidWhiningMen

      Choudary and Liddle. Never seen in the same room together.

      • Grace Ironwood

        Note that Douglas Murray debates these creeps and therefore does not leave their poisonous ideas uncontested.

    • And you would know?! You live in Japan, right?! Right?!

      • Jackthesmilingblack

        However, from your vantage point in multicultural sister-shagging Rochdale… Those Japanese washlets must be a real Godsend for you Jock.

      • Jackthesmilingblack

        My rebuttal’s been deleted, again. You know anything about this, Mods?

        • Cause you are a bit of a tosser! “Vote anyone but Labour” is probably one of the most moronic things to say in British politics in this decade! Why are Lib. and Con. somehow still acceptable (and more acceptable even than UKIP) but Lab. is not? Explain! Why do you persist in linking UKIP with the BNP?! Well, you can’t, because, well, like I say, you are from Japan and you live in Japan, and ultimately you know sweet F. all about British politics. You are just trolling. You know F. all about real life in Britain AS IT IS NOW. You keep on referring to the Britain of the late 1980s and early 1990s like something out of Inspector Morse!

          • Jackthesmilingblack

            “Why are Lib. and Con. somehow still acceptable (and more acceptable even than UKIP) but Lab. is not?”
            Rapes for votes.
            Should be obvious even to the meanest intelligence that died-in-the-wool Labour voters will never switch to another party, so the best achievable result would be to get them to abstain.
            Do try and keep up, Jock.

          • Did you just make the slogan up yourself?! Yes, you did! What a tosser! Are you EDL (Japanese Division)?!

          • Jackthesmilingblack

            “Did you just make the slogan up yourself?!”
            It’s called creativity, original thinking. You should try it. Oh wait, you’re autistic.
            Jack, the Japan Alps Brit

          • No, this is called being seriously mentally ill, to the most of the rest of us.

  • mikewaller

    Any chance Rod could push himself past puberty and actually give some thought to the people these lunatics kill when they get to Syria? Perhaps he could also take some time out from his mob oratory and look at some genuine research that has just been done at Queen Mary University, London. Turns out that the best predictor for becoming a jihadist is a history of depression. Apparently the jihadists even trade on this in the social media, making clear that joining them is the best cure. It does not make me any more sympathetic towards the imbeciles, but it is an important insight and worth rather more than Rod’s usual stream of consciousness nonsense.

    • sebastian2

      I’m feeling a bit down in the dumps this morning on learning that the turncoat Cameron will allow Isis jihadists back into the UK after 2 years. We wanted them stripped of their passports. Didn’t get it. We wanted them permanently removed and out. We didn’t get it. We wanted to show would be jihadists that a trip to the vibrant and diverse islamic state of Isis will be one way only. We didn’t get it. We didn’t get any of this, along with all the other things we didn’t get from Cameron. I’m a bit moody about it.

      So what do we get? After 24 months in the sun, taking selfies holding Kalashnikovs or RPGs and driving round in camouflaged Toyota pick-ups terrorising and ehnically cleansing the locals, or worse; destroying churches and other places of worship; and other horrific acts of brutality and epic vandalism in the name of a deity; after this, they’ll be back to Blighty – a country they detest – where public money awaits for their legal fees, counselling, welfare and medical treatment, and so forth. All of which will cost us, the wholly innocent taxpayer, an absolute fortune at a time when more cuts are on the way and when we don’t want to see these savages ever again. So I’m depressed. I’m depressed and b****y angry. I guess Queen Mary University might find, were they to research this as well, that a majority of decent British citizens feel likewise.

      And the prediction? More Ukip votes. Thousands of them.

      • Damaris Tighe

        As long as Ukip makes an issue out of it. They tend to be very quiet about Islamism.

        • William_Brown

          Yes, don’t they…

          I hope it’s because they don’t want to be too easy a target for the salivating lefties.

          • Grace Ironwood

            I think this is the case. I also think – as do many of their attackers – that EU immigration is code for other, more damaging, immigration.
            When Farage is directly asked, he tends to say the truthful thing about the issue.

          • Damaris Tighe

            Think you may be right here Grace.

          • Swanky

            My guess is that you can be pretty sure about that.

        • sebastian2

          My guess is that the Tories are hoping for mohammedan votes to scrape through with – so don’t be beastly to the slaves to the moon god. On top of that, I guess the Home Office is frightened stiff about possible community breakdown should this obnoxious cult ever truly be faced. In other words, the HO is already intimidated. The threat or likelihood of violence (recall the Danish cartoon uproar) is governing that Office’s timid policy.

          There is an authentic paradox, though, arising from how mohammedans choose to define themselves. If primarily as “muslims” then they automatically invite, on a personal level determined for themselves, the public’s disapproval (there’s lots of it) of the cult that defines them. They become one and the same. Dislike of islam then becomes dislike of those who follow it.

          If, however, they define themselves as people who happen to follow a version of this creed (on the weekends, for example), then we can see them as people – often amiable and decent ones – who subscribe, somehow, to a weird belief but are not identical to it. They have a life and identity outside of it. They are not automatically one and the same, and we note the distinction.

          The problem we have with many mohammedans, though, is that to cast doubt on this highly doubtful “religion” is simultaneously to insult believers for whom the “religion” is all. It becomes impossible to distinguish the true believer from the the belief. They are analogous. It’s deeply personal. This may make it hard for us to like many individual mohammedans (which many of us do) whilst disapproving of their religious commitments and convictions (which many of us also do). How can we? They are all but inseparable. Utterly kindred.

          How do we fix this?

          My apologies for a perhaps convoluted and rambling account here. To be frank, I find it genuinely puzzling and we’re all, I feel, still working our way through how best to deal with it. That said, I know how best not to deal with it: not with appeasement and disproportionate concessions; and not through a naive, multicultural “positive” address of something that has some very sordid and disagreeable elements indeed. We have to see mohammedism for what it is. To do less is a road to nowhere.

          Thanks for your contributions to this discussion, which are unfailingly thoughtful.

          • Damaris Tighe

            You raise some very important points here sebastian. The separation of nominal muslims from Islam is very difficult because apparently declaring atheism is as dangerous as declaring you’re gay. So we have no idea how many are simply people with muslim parents & how many identify with the ‘religion’ (I agree calling it that sticks in my craw; much closer to a cult or ideology).

            However, I think it’s vital to aim one’s criticism at Islam, & not at muslims as a whole because like every other group I’m sure they’re not a homogenous lump. Many have a completely false idea of their religion – they think its ethics are like Christianity or Buddhism because the Koran is not taught to them in their native language. These are the people we call ‘moderate’. I also believe that C S Lewis was correct when he wrote that worship of the ‘wrong’ god with a good heart is attributed to the ‘right’ God.

            I also prefer the term Mohammadan. It’s more accurate but takes too long to type compared with Islam!

            Thank you for your kind final comment.

        • Alexandrovich

          D, I’m hoping that their policy is ‘softly, softly’.

          • Damaris Tighe

            Me too.

      • mikewaller

        As someone a little more insightful has pointed out this morning, just leaving the murderous creatures to roam the world is the moral equivalent of dumping profoundly toxic waste in some third world country. At the very least it is our duty to introduce an offence of participating in a genocidal war and bang them up indefinitely.

        The thing to get your head round is that to say that depression is a key predictor, is not the same as saying “Ah, never mind”. It is a pertinent fact and needs to be taken account of. Throwing a blue fit instead, simply ain’t helpful.

        • sebastian2

          Hmmmmm – well, yes; maybe. But how do we “predict” this behaviour when the causes of “depression” may be hidden (never brought to medical attention), controversial, and in any event, difficult to diagnose without the depressed person’s consent and co-operation which we may never get. So there’s a practical problem, which we may not have the luxury of time to address. Bombs go off quite quickly. Beheadings are done in a moment.

          As for dumping them in third world countries – that might not happen. Even then they have to be admitted and third world countries have problems enough without entering more. These places may be poor but they’re not stupid. However, there are some that I’d be delighted to see them in: Somalia; Sudan; Pakistan; Isis itself for as long as it lasts before it utterly implodes. These are toxic waste regimes where they’d fit in nicely. Failing those, even KSA which has its own local therapy for radical jihadists (which I’ve seen in action); or Qatar which is the source of much funding.

          In the end, I recognise the issues that exist – or are said to exist – ref these disagreeable and dangerous people who choose (and that is what they do) this path. Depression? Religious fervour and a lust for imitating their alleged “prophet”? A doctrine that drives them to kill infidels? Any or all of these. However, I recognise even more our right to be rid of them and to live in comparative safety. I am not going to grant them “victim” status because of alleged depression, for even though that might explain their deeds (which I doubt) it does not excuse them.

          They should be out.

        • Swanky

          But it’s not our toxic waste, it’s theirs, their homelands’. And I would rather deal with alligators that are in their native water holes than come mano a mano with one that’s in my back garden.

          • StupidWhiningMen

            Iraq, Bangladesh, all look the same.

          • mikewaller

            What a smart idea. Why not pack ’em all off to Pakistan where they can assist in the great Islamist struggle to take over the nuclear arsenal. There again, let them go to one of the several failed states where they can kill innocents by the thousands and train up thousands more to follow them. None of it matters so long as you THINK you are safer.

          • Swanky

            OK, I’ll try again. They’re easier to make war on when they are elsewhere than when they are in our own nest.

          • mikewaller

            So Osama bin Laden was less of a threat to the US when he was living in Pakistan or Afghanistan than he would have been had he been locked up in a US jail? Interesting idea.

          • Swanky

            Oh, you want to lock them up? I didn’t know that was an option.

          • mikewaller

            I thought I had already replied to this but it must have got lost. Go back to the beginning of the debate and you will find out that the whole argument has about Liddle’s stupid idea of discharging these very dangerous people into the wider world or dealing with them within our own justice system. Next time pay more attention.

          • Blimey. You could lighten up a bit.

          • mikewaller

            Please give some examples of where your brilliant strategy has worked previously. One of the best ways of alienating the locals wherever has been us killing them in an attempt to kill the jihadists.

          • Grace Ironwood

            Good point that man.

        • Ivan Ewan

          Bah. Take the third option. Send them to their country of choice by air, and then drop them without parachutes. That way nobody has to deal with ‘toxic waste’ at all, and nobody has to turn the British prison into a jihadist recruiting institute.

    • William_Brown

      Oh…Well I’ve been on Fluoxetine for a couple of years now, and nobody from ISIL has even bothered to contact me. I feel so lonely. Little wonder I’m depressed.

      I think that the time for making excuses for these people has well and truly gone. That ship has sailed my friend and look where it’s taken us.

      • Damaris Tighe

        I smiled at your post but seriously, people who suffer from depression just don’t feel like picking up guns. However, psychopaths do.

        • Grace Ironwood

          Yes, sociopaths, criminals, anti-social losers tend to figure largely in the converts.

        • Bill_der_Berg

          If they are sociopaths perhaps they should be encouraged to become bankers.

      • mikewaller

        It is nothing to do with making excuses for these people. It is just a question of being grownup and facing facts. If that is what the research found, that is what the research found. What you do about it is quite another matter. Something else they revealed was just how little many of them new about their religion. The first purchase of several was “The Dummies Guide to Islam”. As an article in the Spectator pointed out a few weeks ago, this is all part of a wider picture having to do with a very large section of alienated youth. In some communities the response is gangs, in others its drugs, elsewhere its suicide – now the biggest killer of young males….. The difference with the Muslims is that they have jihad as an out. What desperately needs to be found is a legitimate way for young people of modest or intermediate ability to acquire a worthwhile stake in society.

        • Alexandrovich

          I’ve read your post carefully, believe me, but this kind of ‘social worker’ approach was discredited long ago because of its utter, utter failure to even ameliorate any problems which it attempted to address.
          It doesn’t help either when you talk in hackneyed cliches.
          May I ask if you work in the Public Sector?

          • mikewaller

            No, I am a 70 year old pensioner and the nearest I got to the kind of public sector work you have in mind was a period spent working for the Central Electricity Generating Board. Most people I know think I am rather hard nosed in terms of the solutions I propose to social issues. However, where I suspect that I differ from you is that I do believe in starting from the known facts. So, if it is known both to Western science and the jihadist leadership that depression is a powerful indicator of a predisposition to join a jihad, that is where I start. So pick the cliches out of that.

          • Jules Wright

            Take your point. However. The most powerful indicator of a predisposition to join jihad is tolerated brainwashing of the ignorant, socially-inept and ill-educated by predatory and dangerous islamic agents provocateur. That, I would argue, is the starting point. To whit, just another extreme form of islamic grooming.

          • mikewaller

            The question is what do you do about it. In my view we should come up with a definitive list of the British values we all say we admire – I suspect a lot on this list would actually hate them – and make teaching them a compulsory element of all schooling in this country. Any institution or individual refusing to teach them would be denied all funds or license to teach. Parents who took a similar view and refused to send their children to school would be persecuted for child neglect. It would of course entail the usual strictures about treating all other humans with respect regardless of their race, gender or sexual orientation. The next step would be to try to do something about the terrible alienation of so many of our young or all ethnicity and religions.

          • Grace Ironwood

            Islamic Canadian students were all recently excused from attending Remembrance day events at request of their parents!

          • mikewaller

            Please could you clarify. Was it because, as with holocaust memorials, they think the commemoration to partial, or was it because they believed following the recent outrage at the Canadian war memorial, their children could expect some unpleasantness?

          • Bill_der_Berg

            I do not know about Canada but an opinion poll (2006) in the UK came up with this result.

            “NOP also found a tendency for British Muslims to believe some, well, strange things. 45% thought that 9/11 was a conspiracy between the USA and Israel. 36% thought that Princess Diana was murdered to stop her marrying a Muslim. More seriously, only 29% thought that the holocaust occured, 2% denied it happened entirely, 17% think it was exaggerated (which is the stance proposed by most of today’s holocaust deniers), 24% said they had “no opinion” and 23% didn’t know what the holocaust was”.

            http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/291

        • Bill_der_Berg

          Is there evidence that jihad appeals most to people of modest or intermediate ability?

          “Prof Bhui found that people who expressed sympathy with jihadi or terrorist ideologies were likely to be well-educated, middle class and come from households earning more than £75,000. And women were slightly more likely to become more radicalised than men”.

          • mikewaller

            First, you are talking about parental wealth which only has a loose correlation with the abilities of the child. Second I do not dispute that highly intelligent people ca become jihadists e.g Osama bin Laden. However they seem to reach their intellectual position by a process of reasoning. The guys who ned to by “The Dummy’s guide to Islam” snd suffer from depression would seem to me to be more impressionable than intellectually impressive. However I do think that there is a category which does have ability and gets pissed off because in our predoninantlycaucasion society they think they don’t get the admiration and respect they deserve on account of their racial and religious background. They are therefore drawwn to a fantasy land in which they

          • Bill_der_Berg

            In fact,I was talking about parental wealth and higher education.

            From what I have read about Prof. Bhui’s report (I have not read the report itself), he had nothing to say about the abilities of those attracted to jihad, although he did note that most of the cases he studied were in higher education.

            His conclusion was that jihadists should not be punished, but should be regarded in the same light as depressives and drug and alcohol abusers.

            It seems to me that if a person who likes the idea of beheading innocent people is mentally ill, it’s more likely to be from something much more disturbing than depression. Homicidal mania, perhaps?

          • mikewaller

            First, there is talking and there is doing and second parental income is not a sure-fire measure of intelligence or ability. That said, there is no doubt a strata of western domiciled Muslim society who come to think that the way society is organised and the prejudices held by the indigenous population deny them the sort of recognition that their talents – real or imagined – deserve. They – both male and female – are then drawn to a fantasy land in which they will be the undisputed elite. What they find when they get there is another matter.

          • Grace Ironwood

            More Research:
            From WITHIN the community it is often the well-educated and higher status. These often go into the Brotherhood.

            From WITHOUT- the converts, it’s very often the losers – especially from grooming- prison conversions have been estimated to form 80% of conversions in USA since 9/11; gang members etc. who get to die for the cause. Islam forms a great oppositional ideology for anti-western, particularly Westerners of colour to join.

            Jihad has such clear attractions for sociopaths, and the alienated, depressed or not .

            Prisons are the obvious site for Islamists and therefore the authorities to concentrate on in the ideological war. Human rightists would, just as obviously, help the Islamists in their work, if groomers were to be separated from their prey.

          • Bill_der_Berg

            It’s an opinion, but as far as I know, there is nothing in the Queen’s University study to support it. The professor who led the study came to believe that ‘jihadism’ was treatable, like depression.

            As I see it, since Jihad finds supporters among muslims in many different countries it would be surprising if there were to recruits from the UK.

          • mikewaller

            As most of the counties where this is happening have massive youth unemployment issues, it seems to me that supports rather than detracts from the theory. Rensis Likert, a name now largely lost to the world of social science, came up with the marvelous phrase “that which increases an individual’s sense of personal worth and importance” as a key human motivator. On this basis, if you are anything from an out and out loser to an individual of talent who thinks the world has nonetheless failed to recognise your true worth, you may well become depressed. A jihadist recruiter who then persuades you that this his is the route by which you force the world to recognise your real abilities, is offering a very attractive package.

            I don’t have any sympathy for them and were they all to fall victim to sudden death syndrome, I would be quietly pleased. But you still have to base action on facts. I should also say that I am far from sanguine about the professor’s notion of cures. As I have argued elsewhere (Family stigma, sexual selection and the evolutionary origins of severe depression’s physiological consequence), I believe that depression and its life shortening effects are an evolved mechanism for “taking out” those who for whatever reason bring discredit on their families in the context of sexual selection. I say this with no pleasure, it is just the only explanation I can think of for what I observe. It is therefor very difficult to deal with. All that has happened is that, not for the first time in history, clever individuals have used this fact to achieve their ends by promising depressives a potent form of seeming salvation.

          • Bill_der_Berg

            Professor Bhui based his findings on interviews with muslims in various parts of the country. Obviously, he was not able to talk to any jihadists, let alone examine them for depression.

            One of his discoveries was that “Those who are having a hard life, who are migrants, are too busy to have fantastic thoughts about attacks,” he said.

            At most , you can surmise that some of the those attracted by jihad did so because their self-respect was undermined by being unemployed. It’s little more than guesswork.
            .

          • mikewaller

            The basis of the study was to ask over 600 men and women of Muslim heritage how they felt about a range of terrorist acts. They were also asked questions having to do with how well they felt themselves integrated into both their local and wider community. One finding was that those not born in the UK were generally the most resistant to radicalization. It is to those the quotation in your middle para applies. I would suspect that some of the reason for that is that they have a sense of achievement having made it to a richer country, and their sense of personal identity is already well formed when they get here. However, what I would suspect they also do is, in effect, tell their kids “Look I enabled you to be born here, now go forth and make brilliant success of it”. And it amongst those kids that the heightened levels of potential for radicalisation were found and that can be either because they lacked the talent to make it big-time or because, rightly or wrongly, they believe such talents as they have have not been properly recognised. .

          • Bill_der_Berg

            There’s no harm in speculating.

        • Grace Ironwood

          Mike do you have a reference for this work and/or the report on it ?

          Thanks

          • mikewaller

            To my shame, I have yet to master posting links. However if you put “Depressed and alone: the mental state of radical extremists” into Google I am sure that you will get the same document I am looking at.

    • Bill_der_Berg

      Herr Hitler had his own ideas on what young people needed to give their lives a sense of purpose. He may have been on to something.

      “[Hitler] has grasped the falsity of the hedonistic attitude to life. Nearly all western thought since the last war, certainly all “progressive” thought, has assumed tacitly that human beings desire nothing beyond ease, security, and avoidance of pain. In such a view of life there is no room, for instance, for patriotism and the military virtues. Hitler, because in his own joyless mind he feels it with exceptional strength, knows that human beings don’t only want comfort, safety, short working-hours, hygiene, birth-control and, in general, common sense; they also, at least intermittently, want struggle and self-sacrifice, not to mention drums, flag and loyalty-parades … Whereas Socialism, and even capitalism in a grudging way, have said to people “I offer you a good time,” Hitler has said to them “I offer you struggle, danger and death,” and as a result a whole nation flings itself at his feet” (George Orwell)

      • mikewaller

        Yup, he finished up with millions dead, the whole country first occupied and the partially dismembered and he having to shoot himself. Brilliant strategy what?

        • Bill_der_Berg

          Perhaps he was depressed and alienated from society. No doubt, if he had felt that he had a stake in society, it would have been a story.

          • mikewaller

            You can bet your bottom dollar that in the highly unlikely event of the whole German art establishment having swung behind Hitler as a result of deciding that he was the greatest artist since Bruegel,world history would have been significantly different. Instead, the only expression for his abilities he could find that was big enough to satisfy his ego, resulted is the horrors for which he is now famous.

          • Bill_der_Berg

            Churchill enjoyed some success as a painter but it did not blunt his political ambitions.

  • StupidWhiningMen

    Maybe the Iraqis don’t want our disenfranchised émigrés.

  • jesseventura2

    This is the best out come the Americans could have hoped for ?
    These disturbed vermin killing each other?

  • Fraser Bailey

    Yes, a very good summary. But I was disappointed with Rod on QT last night as he frequently got his facts wrong. His inaccuracies were as follows:

    – He stated the Sheffield Utd are in the fourth tier of English football, when they are in the third tier
    – He stated that the famous sandwich makers were shifting jobs to Hungary, when in fact they are planning to bring Hungarian workers here
    – He stated that it is UKIP policy to privatise health, when they have committed to retaining the NHS as it is

    More subjectively, he said that Neil Kinnock was one of the best PMs we never had, which is madness in my view.

    • gerontius

      “- He stated the Sheffield Utd are in the fourth tier of English football, when they are in the third tier”

      He can be forgiven for getting that wrong surely

  • Since the UN forbids a country to make its citizens stateless, perhaps we should persuade ISIS to issue its own passports. That would ensure that none of its citizens would allowed to enter any civilised country. We note that it is going to issue its own currency so why not?

  • anyfool

    Can you be the same sensible Rod who last night on Question Time stated somewhat, Andy Burnham is the man for me, he is a man to lead the Labour Party, the only time the audience did not clap enthusiastically you.
    Remember populists are at the mercy of popularity

    • Alexsandr

      burnham should be in jail for stafford.

    • Statman

      Rod was terrible on Question Time. The awful Andy burn ham . Neil f—— Kinnock the best prime minister we never had. No punch.Was he trying to ingratiate himself with the Beeb by pretending he has anything really in common with labour.Does he think Any labour politician would agree with Any of his articles in the Spectator.

  • Seat of Mars

    Bravo. I can hardly believe my eyes when I read in the mainstream press what we all say behind closed doors. Perhaps there is hope for us yet.

  • Why don’t we persuade ISIS to issue their own passports, since the UN tells us that we can’t take British ones away, ISIS is issuing their own currency so why not passports. An ISIS passport would guarantee that they wouldn’t be allowed into any civilised country

  • Ambientereal

    A short story about Abu Dhabi and Islam. A football player from west gets a contract, goes there with his girlfriend (not married) who is pregnant (they live together already 7 years and have two born children) and the two children. The physicians refuse to attend her (although she has some severe health issues due to her pregnancy) because for them she is like a whore. Islam, religion of peace !!!

  • Peter Stroud

    Well said Rod, I hope our own Mother Theresa will hear you pleas, and react positively.

  • Ambientereal

    He should receive an explosive Passport, that blows up whenever he reaches Syria or Irak.

  • edithgrove

    Cameron knows he can’t get rid of them and that he’s making empty gestures. All EU countries have announced this intention months ago and found they couldn’t get it through, Cameron knows this.
    BBC’s World at One today in full propaganda mode, investigating how other EU countries deal with returning jihadists and found they ‘reintegrate’ them (how can you reintegrate people who were not integrated in the first place), that they went for noble reasons. Not true and how foolish the BBC must think we are.

    • Not all countries thankfully. France has just jailed its first returning Jihadi for (a far too short) seven years. He told the court he had abandoned the Da’ech just a few weeks after arriving there because he couldn’t stand not being allowed to smoke!

      • edithgrove

        Yes they can jail them but they cannot, as yet, make them stateless.

  • Gwangi

    Indeed. I listened with increasingly incredulity at the news on the BBC that this Islamofascist traitor had blown himself up. I suspected the BBC, steeped in Islamophilia and diversity-worship, actually thought we should be MOURNING his death!
    They even trotted out his father, who blamed Britain for his death, it seemed, and argued (and he wasn’t challenged by the BBC ethnophiliac interviewing him) that ISIS were not really all that bad at all, in fact they were quite nice, and it was our fault (again) for misunderstanding them.
    I LONG for the Islamists in the UK, those enemies within, which comprise around 15% of the Muslim population here (or 300,000 people) to leave this land and go to ‘Muslim lands’ and, I hope, get themselves blown to pieces before they breed and produce yet more little jihadi vermin. Of course, after a few weeks in the desert, they soon miss their TV, benefits, free health and education, entertainment, modernity, freedom to say what they want in a tolerant society… And IF they want to come back, then they should be our spies (and risk beheading if they are caught), or we should force them to stay in the desert, scratching their flea-ridden Islamoarhses, and dreaming of Bradford, or Tower Hamlets, or Birmingham…

  • Alison Lavinia Houston

    Dear Rod,

    I do hope you are enjoying listening to the BBC commentary and discussions about this from the likes of Moazzam Begg and Shami Chakrabarti. I hope it has changed your mind, if not perhaps you could ask West Yorkshire Police if there are any places left at their training course on dealing with Islamaphobia.

    The speakers are likely to be just as interesting as those mentioned above.

    http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/11/14/How-British-Police-cozy-up-to-extremists-in-the-name-of-Islamophobia-awareness

  • Scradje

    I would have enjoyed this excellent article a lot more if the subject was not so grim. Yes I heard the Chakrabati woman on Rafio 4 Toady. All passports of mentalist psychos going off for a murder and rape spree must be revoked permanently; the holders advised that if they attempt to return to the UK they will be shot on sight for security reasons.

  • obiwan

    A pity you couldn’t have been quite as forthright as this on last night’s QT, Mr Liddle. Frankly, I was very disappointed by your risible performance: so much had been expected. Most of the time you appeared to be cosying up to Labour. Utterly baffling – and such a wasted opportunity.

    • disqus_JXTaH3N9kU

      I believe Rod Liddle is a member of the Labour party. So why wouldn’t he “cosy up to them” ?

  • Alltaxationistheft

    Pretty much spot on Rod. I’d just add keep out the female Jihadists from coming back (ISIL warrior impregnated ) to raise the next generation of jihadists here at our expense

    • EricHobsbawmtwit

      Why do you call them “warriors”? These people are just plain murderers. A warrior at least has some kind of code of honour, as far as I understand it.

      • Guest

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      • Alltaxationistheft

        I might just have been a little ironic!

      • Jackthesmilingblack

        One person’s terrorist …

  • edithgrove

    And the Scottish should go too if all they are going to do is threaten to leave, and moan about independence for the rest of time. Ditto the British in Europe. We should all get on with it or b*gger off, or twitter off, and leave people in peace. Not meaning to digress.

  • Tom M

    I’ve just watched a piece on the BBC (where else) from a former head of M16 anti terrorism called Richard Barrett. In this interview he was calling on the Home Secretary to speed up the return of these impressionable (second or third generation Muslim) young men who had gone on a jihad to Syria who have, apparently, an identitiy cirisis in order that they could re-integrate into the community!! In his considered view the longer we delay their return the more radicalised they will be?
    I can’t believe we employ people like this in those positions. Surely this has to be some Muslim version of April Fool’s day. Is it indeed possible that those responsible for our security could come to this ridiculous conclusion? Has establishment Britian really become blind to who the enemy is?

  • pobinr

    My son’s a teacher. He told me he had to have a teachers union meeting due to female teachers being pushed & shoved by male pupils.
    They are so upset they feel like giving up teaching.
    I guessed what it might be. So I asked him, was it Muslim pupils by any chance ?
    He said Yes.
    There you go. They think women are dirt including their teachers.
    I don’t need the likes of multicultural fascists like Ed SlimeyBand making out every thing’s wonderful. Reality is it’s a massive problem.

  • Agrippina

    We really are governed by fools. Foster parents in Rotherham had children removed from their care because they are members of UKIP. A father of 3 sons (Deghayes) from Brighton who has been all over the media today, has been telling us it is wrong to stop the murderers from returning from the theatre of war in syria & iraq.

    If he is such a great parent, why is it that the social services are not concerned with his parenting skills. He appears to have raised 3 terrorists. I hope that any other children he has are being monitored, to ensure that they go and join up and stay out like their siblings.

  • EricHobsbawmtwit

    So here’s the problem: A guy turns up at Heathrow. His passport says he’s been in Turkey. As far as I know it’s perfectly legal to travel to and from Turkey. Do you have evidence he’s been killing babies in Syria? If you don’t, by what right do you detain him or refuse him entry? Do you have some evidence but not enough to convict should he be tried for it? Is the evidence “top secret”, beyond any kind of scrutiny whatsoever? Where will this arbitrary rule end?

    The point is we need the rule of law and that rule of law should apply to all British citizens equally. It involves things like due process, presumption of innocence and so on. I thought these were the things we cherished?

    So yes, very amusing Rod but I want government to implement policies that are able to withstand contact with actual reality.

  • Rocksy

    Oh Thank God (not Allah). I thought I was the only one who thought like this.

  • GraveDave

    For example, we frequently hear reports of British-born jihadis being killed in Syria, either by blowing themselves up in the familiar, traditional manner or being bombed by the Americans. I usually break out some really good white wine and get the neighbours over for a bit of a knees-up whenever this happens — we exult, and sing songs for a while, our cares forgotten.

    PMSL…

  • Richard

    Choudary, like almost all Muslims in the UK, are eligible for passports from their home countries (Pakistan, et al) by descent. He could still leave if he so-wished. That is why rescinding their UK citizenship would not make them stateless.

  • 1DrFortuneMBezzla7

    I think the arena of political debate could be brightened up by more football style chants.

    “Go and have a go if you thinking you’re hard enough!”

    I think that’s what Mr Liddle is saying

  • Lsd

    Can we not get the SAS or some other nefarious body to ‘disappear’ them after which there should be zero media reporting of their ‘whereabouts’ as in, “Sorry, we let him go but have no idea where he’s gone”. It may have to come to this – if it already hasn’t.

  • Ambientereal

    Tie him to a missile and trow it to the ISIL troops, then he will fulfill his dream of dying with the Jihad and go to Paradise. By the way, is there any method to send him to the Christian paradise instead?

  • Kasperlos

    Finally, some sane analysis on the subject. Is it not understood by this country’s political leadership that returning UK passport holder extremists just might have committed mass murder? Then we are to believe these devils would live ‘normal’ and ‘integrated’ lives in a council estate in the Somerset, Devonshire? Would the UK have invited Mr. Himmler to take up residence in Brighton upon his capture? Are we led by gross incompetents (rhetorical). When oh when will the sleepwalking West realize that there is but one word to describe the Western tradition and Islam: incompatible. Let the divorce proceedings begin.

  • Jackthesmilingblack

    Anjem Choudary: Now there’s a guy that could be facing reverse culture shock. And the sooner the better.

  • AverageGuyInTheStreet

    Thank goodness for Liddle, Gilligan & Murray, the only journalists with the balls to actually say what’s staring us all in the face.

  • Gwangi

    Well, I for one would be happy for my taxes to be used to pay the airfares to Syria for these Brit-hating West-hating Jew-hating Islamofascists (so long as it made a detour over Ukraine, that is…) Good riddance!

  • Statman

    As a right wing conservative who believes we should persue our national interest fully agree with the gist of your article ;except I would provide remote controlled planes to take them out of the country and then blow them up outside UK territorial waters blaming it on the Israelis.After all it’s the influence of their lobby on US and UK politicians which got us into those wars you rightly criticise and increased the danger to our country. See articles by Taki in a mag called the Spectator and the best selling book The Israel Lobby by the two professors Mearsheimer And Walt.

    • jjjj

      You mean, as a white nationalist who believes in Odin.

      • Statman

        You’ve got it all wrong -it’s Thor silly.

  • Blindsideflanker

    I see there is an attempt by the BBC to promote the idea that these poor misguided jihadists should by helped back in the community , rather than prosecuted for being part of a nihilist genocidal movement.

    It is worthwhile comparing the BBC’s bleeding heart for Jihadists, to their antagonism towards the BNP, who they would happily hound through out the country, ensuring BNP activists are banned from every walk of public life.

    It is also worth noting that while the authorities are pretty clueless about the returning Jihadists , they were all over some right wing nuts for putting the Queen’s crown on their emblem.

    • edithgrove

      When I listen to the BBC I understand how Russians can maintain their support for Putin. The BBC just tells lies. The Today programme begins its daily interview with an EU politician asking if everyone in the EU is tired of Britain’s behaviour without ever covering the discontent in each EU country, as if we’re the only ones to complain. And about welcoming the jihadists back ‘as Denmark has’. Plain lies. So far they don’t control the internet but I’m sure they’re working on it.

      • Blindsideflanker

        Yes, the BBC professes to being unbiased and politically balanced, but as you point out they are past masters of loading questions to pursue a specific agenda and goal.

        The other day the Today program had Ms Hussein desperately, and pretty crudely, loading questions to a UN person, to try to get them to say Britain was a horrible country for not taking Syrian refugees. The UN person declined, for she understood we were one of the largest contributors helping refugees there.

        And I am currently too and fro-ing with the BBC in a complaint I made to them about them loading the debate for English devolution , where they have made the decision its English regionalisation and nothing else.

  • Lia Hurst

    Excellent article and spot on.

  • Marvin

    Will Theresa May have the spine not only to give this cancer cell his passport back, BUT escort him to the airport with a passport that would expire in days. Something else that I do not understand. Turkey hates Assad and wants rid of him, so how is it that the borders between them are so porous that these British mutants can freely travel in and out of Syria and return via Turkey. HELP!

  • The so-called Ukrainian “separatists” are actually Russian Spetsnaz and Guards Airborne troops, which is why a Russian colonel, Igor Strelkov, is in command and not a Ukrainian.*

    These disguised Russian military units entered the Ukraine last February when the Ukrainian population, nationwide, revolted against the Communist government in Kiev,** the cause for the revolt being the weakened security apparatus within the nation, where most of the Ukrainian Army was in either Syria or Iraq, or preparing to enter Iraq from Turkey, pretending to be Muslim “Jihadists” (Islamic State). The Islamic State “Jihadists” wearing the black Ninja jumpsuits and balaclava masks are the Ukrainians,*** hiding their pale Caucasian/Slavic identities. Russian special forces posing as Ukrainian separatists are allied with the remnants of the Ukrainian security apparatus in the nation and are attempting to restore Communist “order”.

    Moscow & Allies tasked the West to create Islamic State in southern Turkey (using Ukrainian troops to augment the fake “Islamists”) in order to (1) close off Iraq’s oil to export, increasing the price of oil, allowing oil exporting Russia to maintain economic stability while she modernizes and increases her military forces; (2) continue spotlighting the chaos the West causes around the globe, though it’s actually Moscow & Allies causing the chaos via their Marxist puppets in Western capitals; thereby (3) decreasing the prominence of the West in the eyes of the world; and (4) further weaken the United States Armed Forces via never ending wars per Moscow & Allies’ tasked “War on Terror”; the United States Armed Forces will be re-deployed to Iraq.

    The fraudulent “collapse” of the USSR (and East Bloc) couldn’t have been pulled off until both political parties in the United States (and political parties elsewhere in the West) were co-opted by Moscow & Allies, which explains why verification of the “collapse” was never undertaken by the West, such verification being (1) a natural administrative procedure (since the USSR wasn’t occupied by Western military forces); and (2) necessary for the survival of the West. Recall President Reagan’s favorite phrase, “Trust, but verify”.

    Notice that not one political party in the West demanded verification of the collapse of the USSR, and the media failed to alert your attention to this fact, including the “alternative” media. When determining whether the “former” USSR is complying with arms control treaties, what does the United States do to confirm compliance? Right, the United States sends into the “former” USSR investigative teams to VERIFY compliance, yet when it’s the fate of the West that’s at stake should the collapse of the USSR be a ruse, what does the United States do to confirm the collapse? Nothing!

    It gets worse–the “freed” Soviets and West also never (1) de-Communized the Soviet Armed Forces of its Communist Party officer corps, which was 90% officered by Communist Party members; and (2) arrested and detained the 6-million vigilantes that assisted the Soviet Union’s Ministry of the Interior and police control the populations of the larger cities during the period of “Perestroika” (1986-1991)!

    There can be no collapse of the USSR (or East Bloc nations) without…

    Verification, De-Communization and De-mobilization.

    The West never verified the collapse of the USSR because no collapse occurred, since if a real collapse had occurred the West would have verified it, since the survival of the West depends on verification. Conversely, this proves that the political parties of the West were co-opted by Marxists long before the fraudulent collapse of the USSR, since the survival of the West depends on verification.

    The above means that the so-called “War on Terror” is a USSR & Allies-tasked operation being carried out by the co-opted governments of the West, the purpose being to (1) destroy the prominence of the West in the eyes of the world, where the West is seen (i) invading nations without cause; (ii) causing chaos around the globe; and (iii) killing over one-million civilians and boasting of torture; (2) close off non-Russian supplies of oil for export, thereby increasing the price of oil, the higher price allowing oil exporting Russia to maintain economic stability while she modernizes and increases her military forces; (3) destroy the United States Armed Forces via the never-ending “War on Terror”; the ultimate purpose of the aforementioned to (4) bring about the demise of the United States in the world, opening up a political void to be filled by a new pan-national entity composed of Europe and Russia (replacing the European Union), a union “From the Atlantic to Vladivostok”; which will (5) see the end of NATO.

    Now you know why up until 2013 the “electorates” of Russia, Ukraine and Georgia had been “electing” for president only Soviet era Communist Party member Quislings, except for the first president of Georgia, Zviad Gamsakhurdia, a true dissident who didn’t even last nine months in office before he was ousted in a coup, later said to have committed “suicide”. Zviad Gamsakhurdia was a failed test run to see if a non-Communist Party member president could be controlled.

    —————————————–

    * https://spectator.com.au/features/9298982/the-frightening-face-of-russias-future/

    ** The revolt witnessed the destruction of hundreds of statues of Lenin throughout the Ukraine, statues that were supposed to have been destroyed back in 1991 if the collapse of the USSR were real and not the strategic ruse it is…

    http://leninstatues.ru/leninopad

    In fact, it wasn’t until the national revolt in the Ukraine in February 2014 that any statues of the hated Lenin were destroyed throughout the 15 republics that made up the USSR…

    “Almost every town in Russia has a prominent statue of Vladimir Ilyich Lenin, father of the October Revolution…”

    http://www.saint-petersburg.com/monuments/ploshchad-lenina/

    …and those statues that were taken down in Russia, and other republics that make up the USSR, are safely hidden in parks or museums, to be eventually returned to their former locations after the defeat of the West.

    The only statues to Lenin (and other Communist heroes) taken down in Russia were located in those areas where Western tourists visit the most. Those statues were carefully lifted and relocated, in the case of Moscow, to Fallen Monument Park…

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallen_Monument_Park

    The same subterfuge is taking place in other republics that make up the USSR, where statues to Lenin (and Marx) taken down are hidden, not destroyed, in the case of Tallinn, Estonia, at the Maarjamaë Palace…

    http://nienkebos.wordpress.com/category/maarjamae-palace/

    …and in Lithuania, statues to Lenin and Marx are located at Grūtas Park, which also incredulously has, now get this, a Soviet theme park, replete with “…a mini-zoo and cafes, all containing relics of the Soviet era. On special occasions actors stage re-enactments of various Soviet-sponsored festivals”!…

    http://www.goworldtravel.com/travel-lithuania-grutas-park-reminder-of-dark-past/

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gr%C5%ABtas_Park

    Now you know why up until 2013 the “electorates” of Russia, Ukraine and Georgia were only “electing” for president Soviet era vanguard Communist Party member Quislings, except for the first president of Georgia, Zviad Gamsakhurdia, a true dissident who didn’t even last nine months in office before he was ousted in a coup, later said to have committed “suicide”. Zviad Gamsakhurdia was a failed test run to see if a non-Communist Party member president could be controlled.

    ***
    http://www.cp24.com/polopoly_fs/1.1920657!/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_620/image.jpg

    Those are professional soldiers cradling their weapons in the military stand down position, with trigger finger kept just outside the trigger guard.

  • primitive@primitive1z

    The ISLAMS are only SAFE in the West!Islam is only a FUTILITY condemned! And there is nowhere else you could have an SSShl likes of Choudary sht but in blinkered West where we nurture them in HUMANITY but they spurn that and they just become more sophisticated KILLERS and even turning on our own selves!We are only creating Islam serpents/monsters for the FUTURE who will slaughter and torture our children because liberal ideas gone crazy 21STC. The last guy in WEST to say NO to Islam was Churchill who compared them EASILY to RABIES! 1/4 MILLION Islam dead in ME since Arab Spring but the slavery of Islam is powerful that the Islams got their freedom but at the call of the likes of Choudary are jumping back over the cliff suicide like idiots! Note in Arab Spring? Not even 1 Imam/cleric as HERO/MARTYR dying on the streets. They hide in mosques/religious fervour but send the PRAYERFUL Islams die for NOTHING but desultory paradise that does not exist but in fairy/pagan dreams!!! Only Israel said NO to the ISLAMS! When the WEST learns to say NO more CONCESSIONS. Islam will be CRUSHED and return to the DIGNITY of the mosques!

  • firstname lastname

    I wasn’t aware that there actually is a codified law system in the quran called “sharia law” or more to the point it was an invention of the ottomans so to be fair the fake jew vs the fake muslim mi5 trick still seems to fool most of you.

  • Mercedes Debeer

    I have come to the conclusion that all Muslim;s should be taken out our country completely,their idealogy does not mix with any other ethnic groups,as for some reasons they wish too kill everyone nearby who doesnt like their idealogy they will cut your bloody head off so make sure your ready.They will never fit in and are going to create ghetto’s as they are unlike any other ethic groups who can live side by side, it is terrible how its being let happen.But yes its happening……

  • Baron

    This approach, however appealing it may be, will collapse, the ‘uman rites’ lobby will shoot the new law down easily, one cannot be stripped of citizenship (in international law citizenship and nationality are congruous) without a proper judicial process.

    It would have been easier to declare war on IS (no need to send troops, the declaration would have been enough) then charge everyone with treason for “levying war against the sovereign, adhering to the sovereign’s enemies, giving them aid or comfort.”

  • herbert

    don’t let him leave on his own accord, cancel his passport and deport the pig

    • “don’t let him leave on his own accord, cancel his passport and deport the pig”

      That’s no way to talk about an MI5 agent!

      • Ivan Ewan

        Yer… the MI5 were under orders from David Cameron to make David Cameron look feeble and stupid. Obviously. It was also Cameron’s intention to make UKIP more popular so that he could lose elections.

        On a related note…. the USSR acknowledged that the moon landings were real, and the USSR often lied about the USA, therefore the moon landings were obviously fake.

        • “It was also Cameron’s intention to make UKIP more popular so that he could lose elections.”

          Why would Cameron lose elections when the political parties of the West and media are Marxist?

          • Ivan Ewan

            Firstly I’m surprised you didn’t recognise my sarcastic insane troll logic, which I was deploying against some Jew-hating twit.

            Secondly, let me get this straight. Things only ever happen if an American politician says that they have happened?

          • “Secondly, let me get this straight. Things only ever happen if an American politician says that they have happened?”

            No, that’s not correct. A non-co-opted West would have verified the collapse of the USSR because the survival of the West depends on verification. The co-opted media never pointed this out to us either.

            Now, most politicians within political parties aren’t Marxists, however to this very day those “honest” politicians don’t know if the collapse of the USSR was real or not!

            Now, KGB defector Major Anatoliy Golitsyn warned the West back in 1962 that the Soviets would fake a “liberalization”, but that type of ruse was altered for a “collapse” ruse instead.

  • wtf

    id sign a petition for them to go, good riddance to the lot of them.

  • Fred Blogs

    Well God damn my sisters cats as…bottom! Somebody has ACTUALLY printed some sense 🙂

  • Foeu

    Wonderful article.

  • wordfromthewise

    Let the Choudary POS go, please, please, please, and can he take his family too? That will save the British taxpayer over £26000 a year on the welfare benefits this supposedly ‘trained lawyer’ is claiming from us, which he does in the name of foul islam. By doing this instead of getting off his lazy back side and working for a living he believes he is weakening us.

  • Marvin

    International Laws regarding making people stateless need updating because of a
    section of people who will never ever show allegiance to their country of birth at the expense of their religion and mutant beliefs. The moment they swear allegiance to another group or faction, they should be deemed to have forsaken their citizenship and declared themselves stateless and traitors.

  • Barry

    If Mohamed could see what the muslim’s have become, he would
    chop his own head off in disgust. I class the muslim lower than tramps, pigs
    and rats. Following prayer are they supposed to wash, not happening is it?

  • Richard Eldritch

    We have more than enough soldiers to follow these people out of the country and quietly kill them.

  • Tania

    Fuck off Liddle you stupid little man i am an English woman married to a muslim pakistani and i love him and my kids are half muslim their is nothing wrong with the muslim world,we started this bullshit war joining the stupid americans in the 1st place now pay for what you caused.
    The whole world is brainwashed and believe what you believe and i think i will have my own celebrations with my friends when the stupid americans and english die…LOL

    • Tox66

      Good on you for nicely proving his point for him.

      • Tania

        The media feeds you what they want to feed you and who feeds the media ?
        Power feeds the media our sick leaders.
        Just how America blamed the twin towers on the muslims when they were behind it all along.
        Their more rapists in England and America then anywhere else in this world put alone.
        Have you seen anything with your own eyes that muslims are raping their sisters etc ? No…
        You see little clips and sit in your seats and start judging people.
        How do you know they are muslims behind it ?
        Just coz they brown don’t mean shite.
        Listen god is watching everyone and until we don’t die and know who was who we can not judge anyone.

        • Hexhamgeezer

          oooh! you little tinker….

        • jjjj

          Half Muslim? Half wit more likely. By the way, Samantha L, how did you get into the Ukraine?

          • Tania

            Lol your mum is the troll darling.
            Go to school “Half wit” LMHO ..
            Do you know what this is so boring lol i need to find real people to talk to not keyboard uneducated clowns.

    • Catherine Waterman

      “Half Muslim” ? How odd. I think you mean “half Pakistani”. Remember, being Muslim isn’t a racial type, it’s simply the name of someone whose religion is Islam. Or, maybe your poor kids have been brainwashed to follow just Allah, but not his prophet, or vice versa. Arguably, this could equal “half Muslim”. But I’m being pedantic.

      Methinks you’re one of those stumpy little creatures who live under Scandanavian bridges.

      • Tania

        Lol shut up you stupid cow you don’t know what you talking about and allah and god is 1 we just have different names anyway i can smell Bacon “Yuk” and i aint got time to waste my quality time on a Bacon..
        I was trying to get my point through to that Liddle Millwall Supporting Bitch.
        Keep hating !!!

        • Catherine Waterman

          One thing we do agree on, I hate bacon, as I’d prefer to look at the living pig in all its muddy oink oink beauty. One of Allah’s creatures – oh, wait a minute, he created pigs and dogs for Muslims to persecute and regard as ‘unclean’. What a sadistic bastard.

          • Tania

            You sound fat Catherine ?
            Every Catherine i have ever come across have been fat lol.
            And as for your reference dogs are fine it’s the pigs that eat their own faeces and then you lot eat them.
            And the only sadistic person on here is you for swearing at your own god lol thick bitch.

          • Tox66

            There is no god.

          • Without contradiction, I can safely say that Allah is not my God. Allah is the contraction of Al-Lat, the goddess of (three) Arab goddesses.

          • Jackthesmilingblack

            So what church do you attend?

        • jjjj

          Ha ha, great post troll.

    • Tox66

      Nothing wrong with the Muslim world? Slavery, crucifixion, beheading, rape, religious intolerance and the worst oppression of women anywhere on the planet are plenty wrong, at least to civilised people.

    • Jackthesmilingblack

      This is a wind up. It just has to be. No one could really be this stupid.

    • Richard

      World, world, O world! But that thy strange mutations make us hate thee,
      Life would not yield to age.

  • Mr_Ominous

    Why not just establish a repatriation program for Muslims? It’s clear that Muslims for the most part cannot (or will not) integrate into British society and seek ever more concessions to live in what will become (if allowed to progress) a state within a state at some point in the future. The time for being mealymouthed and meek is finished if the native population of Britain wants to avoid serious civil unrest in the not to distant future.

    • Tox66

      After all, there is a nascent perfect Islamic state being developed in front of our very eyes. It’s the best place.

    • EricHobsbawmtwit

      Yes that was Nazi policy for the Jews. Except I think they wanted to deport them to Majorca, or Madagascar – I can’t remember which.

      How about we just ignore the lunatics, assert our own principles and just tell people if they don’t like them they can sod off. Implementing a fascist racial policy really would be cutting off your nose to spite your face.

      • jjjj

        It was Madagascar you idiot.

        • EricHobsbawmtwit

          Yes, that’s why in my second sentence I typed the word “Madagascar”.

  • Howard

    So we let them fester here under the protective umbrella we provided, and then allow what we let fester, at the behest of our own tax money in many cases, go off to rape and murder little kids in the middle east? Is that it?

  • optimates

    Most non – Muslims British Asians also celebrate when brainless British Muslims dogs/pigs die in Syria,. Always remember – Taqiyya -when dealing Muslims dogs or pigs…I was hoping Mehdi Hasan – go off to Syria as well , do not have listen to his dribble

  • @jackthesmilingblack:disqus: The only remote grounds for your dubious claim as as British as every single one of us was going to some kind of a boarding school in Oxfordshire as a foreign pupil, probably only for 4 years, from 1988 to 1992! What utter rubbish; and you are an embarrassment! You are just an embarrassing Japanese (wrong colour, mate!) male groupie of David Irving! Defending Irving was the reason why you started trolling on the Telegraph, in the year 2007, remember?!

    When was you first diagnosed as having Aspergers?!

    • Jackthesmilingblack

      I warned you didn’t I, Spectator? You tolerate one lunatic and they all start coming out of the woodwork. “The Spectator? Isn’t that the weekly with those totally insane bloggers?”

  • AndrewMelville

    Is there a charity which might provide some of these chaps with travel monies to assist their passage to the Middle East? That is a cause to which I would gladly contribute generously.

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  • @jackthesmilingblack:disqus: Give it up! You are a Japanese paranoid schizophrenic, who likes to use your own made-up words a little too much! Spending a few odd years in England as a teenager does not a British subject make (and yes, being British means being a British subject (for now!); you don’t get to choose the terms! Britain is not a republic, nor should it, in my view!)

  • HeartShaped

    If there were more people like you in Paliament, they wouldn’t all be shitting their pants about UKIP, we might sleep a bit easier at night too; knowing our country wasn’t a playground for terrorists and their friends who pretend to be outraged and shocked every time one of them is exposed as a fanatic.

  • Alex

    The one/Democrat who has confiscated swine choudary passport for not letting him go to Syria must be forced to immigrate to Iraq to be killed and thereafter mr swine must be forced to move to Iraq to be killed and become martyr for Allah so his divine may grant him prize of 72 virgins.

  • bex

    By international law you can’t prevent UK citizens from returning, you can’t leave people stateless, if they die over there so be it. Prevent them going sure, have them in for questioning if they return fine. Blowhard Choudary has no intention of leaving Britain he’s all mouth and no trousers.

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