The hidden price of more overseas students at British public schools

Sometimes they arrive with firmly held ‘traditional’ views which clash with the values of such establishments

29 November 2014

9:00 AM

29 November 2014

9:00 AM

Just a decade or so ago, most public‑school-educated parents felt obliged to give their children the same start in life they themselves were given — selling off heirlooms to send their Jacks and Henriettas off to Eton, Stowe, Cheltenham Ladies or St Paul’s. These days the price is just too high, says Andrew Halls, head of King’s College School in Wimbledon, and he’s been honest enough to name the cause: the hordes of prospective parents from other countries, oligarchs and oil men, all jostling for places for their progeny. They push the price of an elite ‘British’ education up beyond the reach of any ordinary Brit.

He’s brave to raise the issue, but what he doesn’t mention is that there is a price to be paid for this by the independent schools themselves. With these new wealthy students — from China, Nigeria, Ukraine, Russia and the Gulf States — come new and often conflicting cultures. They inevitably bring very ‘traditional’ views to schools that have spent the past 20 years remaking themselves to fit the modern world.

According to the Independent Schools Council, there are 2,536 Russian pupils (with overseas parents) studying in this country — three times as many as there were in 2007. It is the trendy thing for moneyed Russian families to do. One 16-year-old Russian girl quoted in the Guardian last year put it well: ‘Nothing brings out the smugness in a middle-class Russian parent’s voice more than saying: “Oh, my children go to school in England.”’ This is good news for so-called UK Plc, but there are downsides too.

My Catholic boarding school, Worth Abbey, received a small contingent of German dukes and minor princes each year. This year, nationally, Russian students soared ahead of the Germans to become the third biggest group of overseas students, behind only Hong Kong and mainland China. The same is true of public schools across the country, and there have already been incidents as a result. I was told by a member of staff at a very expensive day school in London that they had witnessed a violent attack by Ukrainian pupils on two gay students in a common room. You might have expected the school to crack down on them (our new Education Secretary, Nicky Morgan, recently pledged £2 million to tackle homophobic bullying). As it happens, the students were not expelled, or even suspended — to the dismay of some staff who watched the CCTV pictures of the incident. Why weren’t they? Many suspect that some public schools prioritise lucrative fees over their ‘zero tolerance’ rules on homophobia and racism.

I know of another incident, which may have echoes in other public schools across the country. And because a chain of emails exists that I have seen, it can be reported. The school in question is Dulwich College, the £36,000-a-year south London powerhouse, alma mater of Sir Ernest Shackleton and P.G. Wodehouse and, as it happens, Nigel Farage. The incident happened in an English class, early in the term. The classroom conversation turned to a subject that was prominent in the news that week — the Hong Kong billionaire Cecil Chao Sze-tsung’s offer of £40 million to any man who could persuade his lesbian daughter Gigi to marry him. At that point a newly arrived foreign student, about 16 years old, piped up.

According to the teacher, the boy said that if there was a gay pride march through his city, he would be quite happy to see the participants shot dead. ‘This was the most inflammatory of his views, but there were others in a similar vein throughout the course of the double lesson,’ the teacher wrote in an email. ‘In all my time teaching EAL [English as an additional language] at Dulwich, overseas and at other British schools, I have never heard such extreme and offensive views.’

Also interesting is an email sent by Dr Cameron Pyke, the head of Dulwich’s upper school, to the student’s mother — the wife of a financier. It is clear the two have met in person in her native country. ‘Dear Mrs X,’ it begins. ‘I hope that all is well with you. It was a pleasure to meet you on Saturday. I have now been able to discuss the issue you raised, both with the colleague concerned and with [the student in question].’

He explains the ‘context’ of the class’s discussion in general terms, and then continues on his mission of parental diplomacy: ‘I appreciate your concern about some of the themes discussed, and we recognise that he, together with his family, possesses deeply held views as well as the basis for these, so I have asked him to speak to me directly should he feel uncomfortable in this way in future. However, I am confident that this will not be the case and that we can now consider Friday’s episode closed.’

Why Pyke appreciates her concern, and why he doesn’t seem to think the student will encounter the topic of homosexuality again in the school, we are not told. In his email he goes on to say that he has advised the student to ‘keep his counsel’ at such moments, and has let him withdraw from that course.

When the class teacher was told how Pyke had resolved the issue, she appears to have been — at least initially — unimpressed by the way the matter had been dealt with. She wrote in an email: ‘I find it disappointing that the email to Mrs X has nothing about the need to discipline the boy for his expression of such outrageous and aggressive views. Equally, the implication expressed that he will not encounter such liberal views here at Dulwich is surely problematic as is the idea that such disgusting views as his (and presumably the rest of his family’s) are acceptable at our school as long as they are deeply held.’

When I first tried to report the story, Dulwich’s headmaster, the highly respected Dr Joe Spence (formerly an Eton housemaster), got an expensive firm of lawyers on board to threaten legal action for breaching the boy’s privacy. He said the head of the upper school had been in the foreign country anyway, on a pre-arranged ‘recruitment trip’, when he met the boy’s mother. He also said a student who adopted a persistently homophobic stance would be suspended and that the class teacher had ultimately been satisfied with the way the issue had been handled.

As with most things that go on at prestigious private schools with expensive lawyers — nowadays reliant on foreign money, as they once were on ancient titled families — we will have to take the headmaster at his word. But the whole incident should perhaps act as a cautionary tale for any head teacher of a public school who thinks foreign pupils are an easy answer.

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  • Ozymandias

    I went to Stowe, had the best time of my life, can’t put a price on that.

    • Jackthesmilingblack

      Did you establish many life-long friendships?

      • Certainly not you! You spend most of the day, every single day of the week trolling on the Spectator!

  • Some dude

    This doesn’t really reflect my public school experience as I am precisely the kind of person the author warns against. You know what, violent people and bullies will always find a reason to be that way. I grew up in Lagos and as such I am well aware of the fact that gay people are generally hated here, on an institutional level even. However, I personally would never dream of victimising someone because of their choice in partner. I might mock them if their choice in partner is less than attractive but that’s as far as it would go. It is not in my nature to ostracise people for something as trivial as their sexuality. I would argue that if it wasn’t sexuality it would just be something else. As bullies are the kind of wankers that don’t act out for any reason other than the fact that they are wankers

  • yes, i suppose you can find a problem with anything if you look hard enough. watch out for those hordes of ukrainian homophobes!

  • Jackthesmilingblack

    Private schools, public schools… Don’t you mean independent schools?

  • JohnB

    Toby Young’s comments chime with my experience of Assisted Places in the1990s when I was head of an Independent School. Most of these were taken by the indolent crafty or impoverished middle classes- not exactly to those they were supposed to serve!

  • Mr Grumpy

    Remind me why the unpleasantness of getting beaten up by bullies, Ukrainian or otherwise, is correlated with one’s sexuality.

    • Chris Amies

      because homosexuality, real or imagined, is the number 1 excuse for boys to kick the s**t out of other boys?

      • Zanderz

        Boys rarely need an excuse for kicking the s**t out of one another.

        Examples I saw at my school; height – excess or lack of, hair colour, wearing glasses, skin colour, divorced parents, how rich you are, if you are cool, good at maths, liked history, went on school trip, looked funny, goth, metal head, sport head etc. Anything really.

        Incidentally, whilst being called ‘gay’ was pretty standard, no one actually though you were homosexual. It was a general term for being cr@p.

        • Jackthesmilingblack

          Bottom line: Britain’s a nation of bullies and it starts in schools.

          • rightrightright

            Britain is a nation of foreigners who bully. It starts in schools.

          • And Jackthesmilingblack is himself a Japanese bully who himself had gone to a boarding school in Oxfordshire in the late ’80s and early ’90s! Didn’t stop him from developing his obvious autism and schizophrenia, though!

          • Grace Ironwood

            Bottom line: All kids are Savages

          • SimonToo

            I think the argument here is that we cannot produce decent home-grown bullies any more, so now we have to import them.

        • justejudexultionis

          Anti-gay bullying is usually much more vicious and violent than other forms of bullying – usually, but not always.

      • Mr Grumpy

        So if you get the s**t kicked out of you for some other reason you can console yourself with statistics?

  • lucath

    So much for British values then that can be so easily bought….

    • Mikestone8

      Is tolerance of homosexuality a “British value”? That sort of thing wasn’t even legal here until (iirc) 1967.

  • CecileP

    What the Russians want are British schools with largely British children and not too many other Russians – they will pay anything for comfort and luxury and take their children’s education seriously but an influx of too many foreign students takes away the very thing these parents think they are buying into.

    • Zanderz

      Just as immigration does.

      • goatmince

        Hang on people – you cannot all now say that there’s all these foreigners, gay Russian/A-rab/Asian looking kids flooding our schools and our *universities*.


        Now it’s too late, now look what damage you have done to britain, for short term monetary gain.

        • Zanderz

          I don’t many will think schooling foreign children who can afford to pay is ruining the country.

      • Barbara Val

        But these are not the EU migrants that your friend Nigel despises. These are the “right kind” of migrants who bring the money in, according to the likes of Nigel and co.

        • Zanderz

          My immigration point was general, not specific. Large influxes of other cultures destroys the culture that they came here looking for. Ghettos is the word.

          • Barbara Val

            your point was: homophobia is due to immigration. But if you are honest, the UK does not have a great track record on this. So, good try. Look at The Imitation Game, it is hard to believe but that was going on in Britain in the 50’s. Hardly ages ago.

          • Zanderz

            That wasn’t my point. You misunderstood.

          • Zanderz

            You’ve misunderstood my point. It had nothing to do with homophobia per se. I was simply drawing a parallel with how large numbers of people from a different culture change the host culture. You can apply it to any situation.

    • balance_and_reason

      Most decent public schools put a limit on foreign students per year of about 10% and try to integrate them across the year. I think it a highly creditable achievement that our public schools earn vast sums every year from taking in the progeny of the worlds elite…a crowd who will then be largely pro British for the rest of their lives….and linked in to some of Britain’s best as well..winners all round. World peace and we are paid for it.

      • Grace Ironwood

        Like Assad ?

        • balance_and_reason

          i think the new consensus is that we made a mistake; the relatively …and that’s an important word here…benign but stern rule by Assad compares pretty well to all regimes in the area.
          Imagine what he would have been like without the moulding influence of a proper English education…or whatever he had.

          • Grace Ironwood

            Don’t get me wrong, I’d rather see Assad in power than alternatives. How many times will we have to learn the lesson ourselves.

          • balance_and_reason

            A decimated and politically correct foreign office; lessons of the past lost, blairite nonsense regurgitated to our cost.

          • Joey Feliney

            Assads wife dont cover ups with burkas etc seems those who is killign are islamic state girlie bashers so deserve to die

      • Landscape

        I won’t disagree with your points, but do you believe these schools for the rich deserve charitable status? Most of them pay very little if any tax. They are allowed to get away with it. Just another example of the elite running things for the benefit of the elite and getting the plebs to pay for it.

        • SimonToo

          What if the fees of the rich provide the bursaries for the poor?

          • Landscape

            They do. Most private schools give out bursaries, because if they didn’t it would be even harder for them to get away with charitable status. You can be sure they only do the bare minimum to keep the assessors happy. There’s no altruism in the private schools

          • SimonToo

            There’s no altruism in the private schools? It would be a rare independent school that lacked altruism.

          • Landscape

            “It would be a rare independent school that lacked altruism.”
            Actually Simon, I was being some what ironic. True Altruism is as rare as rocking horse poo!

          • balance_and_reason

            Ah so you generously concede that they do perform charitable acts…

          • Landscape

            Yes of course, the bare minimum required by rules set by the elite to try and juggle the balance of them keeping power without driving the people to revolution. Looking at the way things currently are with the increasing wealth gap, looks like they’re getting the balance wrong as evidenced by the growing disillusionment with the political elite and the old boy private school network

          • balance_and_reason

            The wealth gap and the education gap are all at the door of Labour….reforms made by Thatcher, despised by the bien pensant left, have done more for the working class in this country than any one else. It has reduced the left to spin, lie’s and distortion to generate inter class hatred and jealousy, in the absence of any credible policy to work for the benefit of the wider population.
            The disillusionment with the political elite was kicked off by this spin fest, blatant lies spouted over the BBC in the face of the evidence of the voters own eyes. Dumbing down of the population is but a by product necessary to keep the plebs under control, tugging their forelocks to the benefit agency/ susceptible to the usual buttons pressed by the usual crew…greedy rich/posh exploiters etcetcetc.

          • Landscape

            The Cons have been running things for the last 4 1/2 years over that time the reality is they have given tax cuts to the rich and big business. They have used austerity to cut and reduce the quality of life of the majority.
            Stop trying to blame Lab for everything. That’s just bein g naive.
            Thatcher is originally to blame for the last recession. She deregulated the banks and when Labour tried to reinstate more regulation the Cons voted against it.
            The reality is, it’s not the Cons and it’s not Lab, they are as bad as each other and for any one to support either is stupidity as defined by Einstein, keep doing the same thing and expecting a different result. The ‘spin’ you talk of has been going on since long before the last Lab gov and even before the days of Wilson and Callaghan.
            You appear to be unfortunate enough to have fallen for Cons spin that everything is Labs fault.
            The people are not quite as stupid as some would have us believe. We also have access to far more information than ever before.
            We can check things, we don’t take news headlines at face value.

          • balance_and_reason

            The conservative government was put in the same position that Thatchers conservative government was put in. A cratered economy, driven into the wall by a feckless spendthrift bunch of incompetents…I’ve never seen so many resignations for screw ups as under the Blair and Brown….To put it into perspective, the balance of government spending to GDP was 33% on Blair’s stealing the throne. Over the next decade labour raised the level of taxation with nearly 100 new taxes/changes to taxes which took that up to over 50%. On top of that, they had upped the use of PFI literally through the roof (off balance sheet financing to you and I)…on top of that they drove Britain’s debt literally through the roof….and as a final piece of the jigsaw they created an extra 500,000 public sector jobs over the course of their reign. On top of the existing liability for pensions we therefore have the increased public sector wage bill, plus a vast expansion of future liability…off the current balance sheet as well. This astonishing quintuple whammy of spending, unprecedented in the history of the developed world, produced a steady decline in educational standards, a decline in social mobility, zero net new private jobs over the period, a massive house price boom, a 20% unemployable underclass stuck in a cul de sac benefits trap, and no defence against a world downturn because they had spent the credit card to the max.
            We are still in trouble and I literally can’t believe we have done as well as we have….but it is not the conservatives fault; they will be to blame for issues that become apparent over the next 10 years. For instance the usual screaming rage driven alliance between the unions and the ‘hampstead elite’ when anyone steps on their patch to try and remedy the screw up in education has re-occured….our children will pay the price.

          • Landscape

            Wow! So many points and so many incorrect assumptions.
            I can see I’m not going to persuade you to take off your Lab hating goggles and do some serious research and read some independent reports.
            So I won’t bother listing some things the Cons have done which have caused massive damage to this country.
            Yes you are correct Lab have messed things up many times in the past, but if you really believe the Cons are the way forward when they’re blatantly as bad in their own way for the people of this country, I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree.
            Good luck to you sir.

        • balance_and_reason

          They are not subsidised, and in that sense cost the tax payer nothing. Further, the children of British people educated there are not costing the tax payer the cost of a state education so subsidise the rest of the population an equivalent to 7% of the state education bill ( or whatever percentage go private). So as well as not costing the state anything , those parents are paying the same levels of taxation as everyone else..and are thus double paying, to the advantage of the rest of the population.

          Further it is an export so all the foreign people buying an education then come to Britain spending on transport, clothing, equipment, supervision, housing….extra tourism expenditure that would not have been spent had their kids not been here…and in most cases an enduring fondness for things British going on into the future which will continue to benefit this country. It costs the Plebs, to use your word, nothing…NOTHING.

          It is education after all …are you saying that because it looks after rich people it should be taxed as a business?….should books sold to the wealthy be subject to VAT as well, unlike the rest of books…

          I think you will find that schools don’t make much in the way of taxable profits because they are schools not business’s…your foolish, political, points about subsidisation are flat wrong.

          Incidentally you can similarly set up and run a school, private and free, for the benefit of any sector of the population. You will benefit from the charitable status that schools receive, correctly, as the aim is to educate and uplift the population generally. Nobody loses when the average enlightenment rises. I suggest rather than parroting labours arrant nonsense you get on and start a school for the deprived and make a difference, the nation certainly needs it.

          • steepholm

            “I suggest rather than parroting labours [sic] arrant nonsense you get on and start a school for the deprived and make a difference, the nation certainly needs it.”

            And this charitable institution is to be funded how? By the fees paid by people who by definition can’t afford them? You have a pretty good line in nonsense yourself.

          • balance_and_reason

            There are 174 free schools up and running at present and 300 planned; the clue is in the word ‘free’……

            Not every one will be an unmitigated success but on balance, on average, over time I would lay one of my legs on a wager that the children of this country will be better served than by the union dominated car crash of the comprehensive system which we must thank the socialist movement for.

          • steepholm

            Ah, you mean Joe taxpayer is expected to foot the bill.

            You’re right that not every “free” school (they seem very expensive to me) will be an unmitigated success – the experiment seems reckless and ideological rather than evidence-driven. The one nearest me, by the way, though sited in a poor area of Bristol, has gerrymandered its catchment so that only pupils from the leafier parts of the city can enter its lavishly-funded gates; it’s just another way for the rich to sponge off the poor. For all that, I suspect the education I received at my comprehensive was superior to the one being offered there.

          • balance_and_reason

            1/ Joe the taxpayer pays for state education…the question is how to use that money effectively for the benefit of the country.
            2/ Gerrymandering is what Labour did by pushing more than 50% of the UK population into receiving some sort of benefit , by doubling the level of immigration for the last 7 years of its tenure, by keeping patently unfair electoral boundaries, etc etc…understand the meaning of the word.
            3/ It is the nature of things, unchangeable I suspect, that if an opportunity is offered, the more intelligent ,the more alert, ‘the hungrier’ will grasp it first…that does not have to mean the wealthiest. In any event it offers competition and alternatives where before there were none.
            4/ I can see no reason why this is the rich spongeing off the poor…it gets per head funding for students , just like the other…I suspect you are in the Labour lies/distortion and spin department.
            5/ The gap between private schools and state is so wide now that I suspect a more focussed, nimbler school with a blackboard and chalk could outperform most state schools. I disregard your comment on comprehensives, the overwhelming evidence of the education stats contradict you.

          • steepholm

            1. Agreed. Your original comment appeared to imply that one could take a “Let’s do the show right here!” approach to education, and that funds would somehow precipitate. I’m happy to accept that that was not your meaning.
            2. I don’t know what point you are trying to make: I understand exactly what the word means and where it comes from, and used it correctly. Only the last of your examples really fits the bill.
            3. The law of the jungle is indeed the “background noise” to most human activity. One of the main roles of civilization is to mitigate it so as to prevent the exploitation of the vulnerable. That is why we offer seats to the elderly rather than pushing them aside – or should do.
            4. Labour is far too right-wing for my taste.
            5. I don’t know what “nimbler” means in this context (unless it’s a euphemism for queue-jumping?), but I can only repeat that I received what I consider an excellent education at my comprehensive, and judging by their later careers I will claim the same of many of my fellow pupils. My only regret is that because my school had until the year before my enrolment been a secondary modern I was never offered Latin (and so ‘never had the Latin for the judging’!); but I see that as a flaw inherited from the so-called grammar school system (which should probably be called the secondary modern system, since they made up the vast majority of schools and about 75% of children were sent there). I’ll add that my parents, both of whom taught in comprehensives, were among the most well-read, intelligent and humane people I have met, and inspired generations of children. Whether they were also nimble I leave to time-and-motion men to judge.

          • balance_and_reason

            2/In the process of setting electoral districts, gerrymandering is a practice that attempts to establish a political advantage for a particular party or group by manipulating district boundaries to create partisan advantaged districts.

            Taking groups of the population ‘as districts’ we can see from past voting patterns that recent immigrant groups voted to a large extent for Labour..(82%)…I can see no other logical reason for Labour to have done what it did over the protracted period it opened the gates; it makes no economic sense, it makes no sense as to the conditions resulting for it’s main voter base, the incumbent working class; it makes no sense in trying to have an integrated, positive and cohesive community when large groups of very different cultures are imposed over a short period in area’s already short of basic resources, this includes communities who were war damaged and from basically medieval cultures, with no effort made at integration……basically gerrymandering their vote and stuff all of you and stuff the issues that inevitably accrue.

            3/No one is talking about pushing old ladies out of seats; in fact having a better educated population makes this kind of behaviour less likely…see also my point above with respect to dumping 100,000’s of people from widely differing cultures on area’s without resources to handle them….

            4/Socialism is discredited the world over, its failed , not delivered, caused misery…why would you want to stick with that fairy story?

            5/ THE CRUX of the matter at last. Here we have the admission that clears up the misunderstanding…so the progeny of two teachers got a ripping good education…I wonder, were you in one of those lovely ‘state’ schools run by the people for the people in one of those luvvy ghetto’s where we can all pat each other on the back and say how lovely and ‘of the people’ we are?

            Irrelevant I’m afraid, your fee’s were paid by the extra cost of your house to be in that district. I’m concerned with the average experience across the country where the average child at 13 can read very poorly, has the maths ability below a 10 year singaporean, and frankly this business of secondary moderns and grammar schools is re arguing a 40 year old issue which is largely irrelevant now.

            Comprehensives have failed to elevate children’s education; the average kid now is worse educated than his/her grandparent despite vast quantities of cash being hosed all over the education system in the last 20 years, we all pay the price for that. Social mobility has shrunk, and now Labourites are trying to blame private schools for that…disgusting.

          • steepholm

            Gosh, your mind really does run on stereotypes, doesn’t it? How tedious for you.

            I don’t see much point in extending this exchange, but I’ll take the opportunity to correct a couple of your assumptions about me. First, I am not a socialist. Second, I was brought up in a small town where the major employers were the local brewery, and nearby farms and nursery gardens. Most of my classmates’ parents worked at one or other of these places. The secondary school I attended was the only one in the town. Not all of us were raised in cities, you know.

            The rest of your assertions are about as reliable as your estimate of my personal history, but I wish to end on a note of agreement. Social mobility has indeed shrunk. As for the causes, well private schools obviously don’t help, but the malaise is far more deep seated, and will require a far more radical solution than we’re ever likely to see from what’s left of the Labour Party.

          • balance_and_reason

            If you are to the left of socialist then I too must raise my hat and say good day; there clearly will be nothing I can say to convince you when the entire 20th century is proof of the failure of communism, and you are still a believer.

          • Landscape

            The private schools and the richer parents. Work scams to avoid tax.

            A rather well known one is for parents to pay some times many years fees in advance. The schools invest it and as they have charitable status they pay no tax. It’s like giving private schools there own ISA’s but they are allowed millions in them unlike the plebs who can only put in thousands. The school gets all the extra tax breaks and the parents get a share.

            This is a common method of avoiding tax by the schools and the rich.

            Take for example a high interest deposit account, which would pay the school 3.5 per cent gross – tax free because of its charitable status. If a parent used the same account, assuming they are a 40 per cent taxpayer, they would only receive 2.1 per cent using the same account.

            If the school were to take the money from the parents upfront and invest it, and offer them a three per cent discount on the fees in return, both sides benefit.

            Most private schools will offer a scheme like this. Harrow describes it as a ‘tax-efficient Advance Fees Scheme, which offers attractive returns.’

            Radley, in Oxfordshire, boasts that one in six of its current boys have fees paid in advance. It adds it ‘can be very beneficial when parents and other are assessed at the higher rate of tax. There should be no involvement with capital gains tax.’

            The Independent Schools Bursars Association says: ‘The key point to bear in mind is that the commutation benefit to the parents/guardians is not subject to taxation. Therefore a higher rate taxpayer may find the scheme attractive even at a rate somewhat lower than could be obtained in the financial markets.’

            Everyone’s a winner – except the Exchequer.

            Nothing to do with Labours political stance on this.
            It’s just another example of how the rich manipulate things to benefit themselves at the expense of the ordinary taxpayer.

          • balance_and_reason

            Each of those parents will have had to have earned those funds in order to pre pay their fees. They are entitled to use, within the law , the existing structures to best manage their tax affairs….to say anything else is utter foolishness. If they were not offered this route they would probably use an ISA to save the money, or pay down the mortgage, or save on behalf of their kids a fund to pay off their loan…you cannot make sweeping statements about different peoples tax planning, or make assumptions about how much tax they pay or ought to pay; the law should be simple and enforceable…the rest is the fault of politicians such as Brown who made the ridiculous complexity even worse and as a result have allowed clever accountants ways to avoid tax….don’t blame the schools.
            Also, this is not a cost to ‘the plebs’ as you misleadingly say…it is a notional tax that might have been payed, but probably not since all parents have to do to avoid it is to give the funds to a child, who then ‘owns’ the cash until it is payed to the school. The child’s capital gains tax allowance is more than adequate to cover the short term gains over a six or seven year period of school fee’s entirely tax free….

            You are just a typical tool of labour’s re-election campaign, plan 1, version 27b…politics of envy.

          • Landscape

            I’m not going to waste any more time on you. The simple fact is. These schools are set up and run for the benefit of the minority. The tax avoidance scams they use are supported by the elite for the elite. The one I advised you of is just one of many. There are others where they make use of their childrens £10k a year tax free earnings allowance to set up ‘business’s and pay the kids as share holders as just another way to avoid tax.
            The system is full of them and half the reason this world is such a mess. Those with the riches make damn sure the system only works for those with the riches.
            Greed will be the end of this world and far too many people now a days are greedy. I wouldn’t mind so much if we genuine entrepreneurs like Cadbury and Rowntree who actually gave a damn about the ordinary people. Today, too many of the rich and powerful are psychopaths. Yes really, go and look it up.
            You would still advocate charitable status for the elitist organisations which do nothing other than encourage the ever widening wealth and social gaps which inevitably leads to greater unhappiness of the general population. Just think back to France when the people finally had enough of the elite taking the michael.
            The UK has the largest wealth gap of the G& countries and it is growing under the current shower doing what they do best. Make the rich richer off the back of the hard work or the people.
            These private schools just encourage and strengthen the ‘them and us’ attitude and social division

          • balance_and_reason

            The minority you refer to is not exclusive and the private school I sent my kids to took 10% of the fee’s charged and provided free places to local pupils as well as many local initiatives in co-use of facilities and a larger fund, built from donations by ex-pupils to further fund bursaries for less well off children.
            Most of the children at the school…10 to 1 at least…were from parents who had become successful in their own lifetimes, ie not inherited wealth, contradicting your standard Labour smear of some gilded elite of an aristocratic uber race treading on the poor…
            It is the grand socialist failure of the comprehensive system that has been the drive and impetus behind the success of private education in this country…shotgun , foot blown off, once again vindictive, soviet style policies have achieved the opposite of their lofty intentions…three generations of school children burnt on the bonfire of socialist dogma.
            Don’t try a lie and distort reality to support your failure. Work to remedy the situation; more education is good, more flexibility is good, efficiency is good; bullshit dogma, bogus course’s, grade inflation, all excrement imposed by the worst administration this country has endured since King John has done nothing but damage to the poor, the underprivileged and those who actively wanted to improve their position.

          • Joey Feliney

            The problem is the homophic and mysognisitc bullies and supporters in the authourity of the school, so kill them and the rest should be fine

          • balance_and_reason


          • Joey Feliney

            its not the foreingers thats the issue its allowing evil bullying homophobia would be rapist ones from mafia like thugs

            if the heads support the bullying slit their throats, seize control and change things

  • vieuxceps2

    Why this continual harping on about sexuality, especially homo-sexuality? Since when did it become so essential to safeguard such persons from abuse? Bullies are roused by everything, gingerness,spectacles,shortness, tallness,fatness and so on.Only, y’know, it seems that columnists and the like only squawk loud when the victims are “gay”. Is it not dangerous to emphasise the separateness of a section of society and to afford them more protection than others? Is that not a recipe for inciting more bullying?

    • Wee Scitter

      At the core of the hard-left it’s part of the continued effort to break normal healthy sexual relationships between men and women. To break down the capitalist society by attacking its backbone — the traditional family with children raised with both of the needed male and female influence so that their offspring may be the most prosperous. Create a dysfunctional society that results from broken families, with no idea of sexual restraint or the child-focused purpose of traditional marriage, resulting in single mothers, low educational achievement, poor health, poor education, anti-social behaviour, no noble masculine role models to defend ourselves, and then you can impose the large state (and eventually the international global Communist utopia) as a result.

      Most ordinary Russians have already been through all this nonsense themselves and know for themselves just how destructive Marxism can be.

      • Dan Lee

        Homophobic bigotry from the speccie readers not surprising.

        • justejudexultionis

          They’re not the best at dealing with complexity.

        • Grace Ironwood

          A sincere question for you :

          Do you consider it *theoretically* possible for a person to make an argument against, say, gay marriage & parenting, without that person being “homophobic” ?

          • Dan Lee

            Can you make an argument against interracial (no matter how weak or strong the racial difference is) marriage without being racist?

          • Grace Ironwood

            Interracial differences are irrelevant to the essentially procreative nature of marriage, with the spouses creation of children that found a family. Two partners of the same sex are infertile and so do not have this essential, categorical attribute of the marital, conjugal relationship.

            similarly, some attributes meaningfully disqualify some types of pairings for marriage: egs children & parents,

          • Dan Lee

            There’s adoption. Surrogacy. External fertilisation. Done by both hetero and homo couples.

            So you want to ban infertile heterosexuals from marrying? Sounds since your focus is on pro creation.

            Want about heterosexuals choosing to not have children by rights of freedom? Why are you a fascist that hates freedom that you want to stop non pro creation heterosexuality?

            Just admit your hatred is based on emotions that simply amount to self harming thoughts of homosexuals get up to.

          • Grace Ironwood

            What about my question ?

            “A sincere question for you :

            Do you consider it *theoretically* possible for a person to make an argument against, say, gay marriage & parenting, without that person being “homophobic” ? “

          • Dan Lee

            I Already answered It. The answer was no because you’re too dumb to read it the first time it is id again NO.

          • Grace Ironwood

            Just clarifying your answer –

            that you think it’s literally impossible for any argument whatsoever against gay marriage to be made without the proponent being a bigot, who, if I read you aright, hates all gay people with an unreasoning passion,

            That is your considered and final position ?

          • Grace Ironwood

            Why can’t you tell me why people MUST *necessarily* and always be bigots if they make any argument whatsoever against gay marriage ?

            Can you not really support your charge of “homophobia” ?

          • Joey Feliney

            Simple grace… its bigotry when those you attack and repress are not themselves harming others and you are simply attacking a groups for being different and often weaker

          • Wee Scitter

            The purpose of marriage was as a binding relationship for the protection of children, no matter what. That original meaning has now been lost in the modern definition of “love” whereby the concern is merely for selfish adults. The results have been disastrous for children.

            Your focus is on the exceptions to the mainstream norm that needs to culturally prioritised. These exceptions depend on the mainstream to have a functional society to thrive, but the mainstream does not depend on the exceptions. You want the culture focused on these exceptions, despite the greater disadvantage to society as a whole.

          • Grace Ironwood

            That is well expressed and valid.

          • Joey Feliney

            The purpose of marriage is as a healthy binding relationship between men
            and women for the protection of children, no matter what, with the
            biological strengths of both the masculine and feminine for a strong
            relationship and rounded upbringing.

            No thats a load of cobblers…

            its two people really love being together, love all the touchy feely sexy stuff together and like living together and dont want to be apart and all your marriage is, is a party to make this official with the community. Often this leads to them wanting a family due to biol clocks etc, but not always and its sensible to wait till late 20s as more practical whilst most horney in teens

            Your traditional marriages were little more than sex trafficing rape treating females as little more than invitro test tubes to make babies showing your kind have no morality. Its the same reason your religious that support your ideology have no laws against rape or peadophilia

            You see its the exceptions that move society on.

            The mainsteam are the idiots who binge drink, are ignorant morals on world affairs, who acieive nothing, you cn eradicate all of them and keep all the specials, the experts the artists, the thinkers the talented, the politicals, those who are remembered in history

            All mainstreamers want is to keep others as worthless as themselves like the girls who call prettier girls whores and sluts, the morons who call smart kids nurds

          • cartimandua

            But marriage doesn’t have to be “procreative” people are not farm animals. Disabled people can marry as can elderly people.

          • Grace Ironwood

            The nature of marriage is procreative, across time and across different cultures.

            Claude Levi Strauss, the anthropologist, defined marriage as
            ” a social institution with a biological foundation” . Every marriage may not produce children, but every child has a mother and a father and has a right to have a relationship with her mother and father.

            The law and the culture works with categories – men, women, even if there are instances where children are not born.
            No reason to institutionalise adult relationships on the grounds of sentiment only, the state and society only has an interest in children and families.

          • Joey Feliney

            Grace Most marriages by natures were sex trafficing rape, ie we get a ship you can have one of our daughters who then has to submit herself sexually and we enforce virginity with stoning or burning alive and nasty name calling to ensure the product is unused. Hence the number of child and forced arranged marriages and things like female genital mutilaition.

            Socieities where sex and marriage is about snuggles fun and love and promiscuity are thus more moral as dont objectify females as waking baby production units.

            Its is your so called moral god fearing types who support rape and control of females

          • Grace Ironwood

            You didn’t answer my question,

          • Dan Lee

            No. Opposition from you is based on nothing but bigotry and hypocrisy.

          • Grace Ironwood

            Is your answer to my question below –

            “Do you consider it *theoretically* possible for a person to make an argument against, say, gay marriage & parenting, without that person being “homophobic” ? ”

            “Yes, it is theoretically impossible for a person to make an argument against gay marriage without being “homophobic”


          • vieuxceps2

            No, Ms Ironwood, such people never do answer questions, they simply ask another totally unrelated question so as to avoid the point you are making.Often they resort to uttering inane but true banalities like “apples grow on trees” and sit back with a smug smirk as if they had won the argument by dint of their immense intellects.I find it best to ignore the silly buggers.

          • Grace Ironwood

            ? ?

          • cartimandua

            No but they could just be stupid too. Fundamentalism is associated with lower IQs.

        • Wee Scitter

          Cultural Marxists, as always, when you don’t have a rational argument based on logic or facts (and even the acknowledged truth as some leftists have let slip), shout your empty PC silencing insult words in the hope that your opponent is as emotionally crippled as yourselves.

          The intelligent members of the silenced majority are waking up, and refusing to be bullied into silence by emotionally-driven faux-altruistic-sounding demagoguery. Quite a few useful idiots still cave in to this emotional manipulation and promote it themselves (e.g. David Cameron), but you cannot hide the truth forever, and the more who speak out, the more the truth shall prevail.

          • justejudexultionis

            You appear to be in favour of random acts of physical violence targeted against so-called ‘homosexuals’. That would put you in the same league as Putin and Hitler. Well done, your capitalist hysteria seems to have blinded you to ordinary morality and common human decency.

          • Wee Scitter

            Again, the usual boring innuendo tactic of “yes, he said that, but what he REALLY meant was this, nudge, nudge, wink, wink”.

            My reply to the comment stating “Why this continual harping on about sexuality, especially homo-sexuality?” and not the article, but then emotional thinkers aren’t great at nuance.

            I have no ultra-capitalist hysteria either, as oppose the excessive power of large multinationals etc.,which have been as much as damaging to cultural conservative values as cultural Marxists.

          • Joey Feliney

            People go on about sexuality as fed up with your thug types bullying and repressive girls and gays. They see the ideologies whihc excuse and promote bullying liek racisim and sexsiim and homophobia.

            You see your mainstream are dull, blands, borning, ignorant and achieve nothing in live.

            We prefer to look to those who change socieity for the better from Sparticus, Wilberforce, Emiline Pankhurst, martin Luther King, Stonewall, Greenpeace, Radio Caroloine, The Sex Pistols, Malal, Columbus, Darwin. Da Vinchi

            All the good in society has been done by those who challenged and defeated your mainstream, all creativity and progress comes from rebellions

            All Mainstream does is hold people back from their full potential.

            You dont need a father to teach people how to fight back… females can do that as well, such as teaching gay kids to batter the crap out of folk like you and girls to join them for your attempts to restrict their lives

            You see the superior dont look at whats normal or abnormal but what works and what does not and a more varied anti conservative society means more choice of skills and more specialists. Gays and lesbains often have very useful skills for socieiy, mainstrem repressors similar get in the way

          • Dan Lee

            You’re conspiracy theorist idiot who thinks gayness is anti capitalist. Just admit your own hatred stems from personal struggles.

          • Wee Scitter

            Cultural Marxism is no mere theory. It is the openly acknowledged demagogic political ideology that has been at the core of the new left for decades.

          • Dan Lee

            Stop taking it out on others because you struggle sith your lust for penis.

            time and time again it is proven that the bigots are hypocrites in the closet.

          • Wee Scitter

            Hmm, yes, your pseudo-science says I just wake up every day and think for myself – dang! I am just dying for a big cock up my sh1t pipe!

            No concern at all as to destruction I see all around me directly as a result of family breakdown. I just want the cock!

          • Dan Lee

            Destruction haha so over dramatic.

          • cartimandua

            There is no link whatsoever between “gayness” and family breakdown.

            Support gay marriage


          • Wee Scitter

            It isn’t a direct link, but an indirect societal link if a society’s culture loses mainstream focus on healthy sexual morality, instead allowing people to lose track of its biological purpose (LGBT activism and feminism have been used as double-pronged attack for promoting anti-family behaviours, and the destruction of the promotion of the masculine traits needed to be noble male father figure).

          • Pacificweather

            Wonderful! You should write comedy for Radio 4. God knows it needs someone with a sense of humour.

          • Joey Feliney

            You are talking nonsense Wee Scitter.

            Healthy sexual morality means a liberal sexually open and relaxed society where nobody makes a fuss over some Disney actresses nude sexting photos, some teachers wet t shirt topless photos, skirt lenths or coloured hair or tattoos as people associaite sex with cuddles, romance, love, affection fun and games,

            You see those who harp on about biological purpose and so called family values tend to have no morals as evil bullies sexist mysogonistic supporting activity like magdelen asylums, honour killing, forced marriage attacking contraception and abortion ans supportign female genital mutilaiton

            They also tend to support evil cults like christianity and islam with a long history of abuse repression mass murder torture and terrorism.

            To teach noble family figures you teach boys to behave like gorillas not chimps ie heros who protect others but avoid violence rather then the chav gang thugs types who abuse females.

            You see gays and lesbains are great for socieity promoting real morality based on the idiologies of treating others as you would ahve them teat you and ans long as you harm none do as you will.

            We see how your unrestricted capitalsm works with yout zero hours contracts, slave labour of immigrants and 3rd world labour, lack of pollution and tax avaoidance

            Whilst gays and lesbains can make perfectly good parents whilst many of your marriage couples bash and abuse kids are drunks and loosers

            Plus its great having gays around, they are funny , creative, artistic, make girls look pretty bring girls to the party as make great gay best friends for them

          • Joey Feliney

            Wee Scitter is talking nonsense you see if it was not homos he would be picking on those with glasses, being witches, having ginger hair, foreign, sexually confident female…

            basically anything different to the so called norm as his kind only hangs out with those just like him

          • Joey Feliney

            No the family break down is as your lot oppose sex ed, contrception and dont teach folk to be nice to each other

          • Ed

            ‘I just want the cock’

            Yes, that’s probably exactly where all this bile is coming from. Never mind – maybe you’ll get over it.

          • vieuxceps2

            “time and again it is proven etc”-When ? When was it proven? By whom was it proven? Typical lefty invention . What is the source of your assertion? Wee Scitter is right, we are beginning to take note.

          • Joey Feliney

            How is he right? where do you see the most drunken knife crime and violence.

            In the gay village or the macho football terrances and ghettos?

          • cartimandua

            yup Freud was right.

          • cartimandua

            That the most homophobic are latent is no mere theory either.

          • Joey Feliney

            So you problem Wee is with people treating Others fairly as long as not themselves being abusive?

            Where is your morality in that?

          • cartimandua

            I do, there is a very well reviewed study out of Columbia University which shows an anti gay ethos lead to more poor mental health and suicides in both straight and gay children and teens.
            That’s the facts. Its your bigotry or your kids.

          • Wee Scitter

            Wishful thinking BS pseudoscience. Columbia University was wxactly to where the Frankfurt School was relocated.

          • Joey Feliney

            Actually the ponly bullies I see is your lot be you called islamic terrorists, christins inquistions, sexist, homophobic, appropraite, family values scum its all the same.

            kids are brought up best in communities not family units … ir Mr Bill the bitcher grabs naughty Eric and takes him hme when naughty and Leslie the pole dancer gives lonley jane som tip in getting the attention of the boy she has a crush on and mich the ex army biker give johhny the bully victim lesson on defending themselves and all are bringin up the kids.

            You see you sound no different Wee to someone trying to excuse segregation

            Chrisntity and tradtionlalvalues were witch burnign and abuserrs nothing moral

          • balance_and_reason

            Can someone direct Mr Feliney back to his asylum, he appears to be bewildered and lost.

          • Joey Feliney

            Not at all, I just operate on zero tollerance of bullying sexist homophobic repressive conservative scum

            its is very clear that the whole community brings up children be it a violent ghettos getting the kids into gangs or a friendly supportive community where most folk know each other and all get involved to protect kids from bullying and discipline those being naughty were mentors and role models are family friends and form an extended family.

            Historical evidence shows how abrahmic religions have a history of abuse, murder and repression thus cannot be a source of morality any more than nazis.

            Flirt skills used by pole dancers are the same as those who flirt to pull potential partners, kids who are bullied need someone to teach them to defend themselves

            Now you can all note how Mr Balance here never counter argued my points just tried name calling thus has no case and is in the wrong

          • balance_and_reason

            Time for your lie down Joey, don’t forget the little pill.

          • Joey Feliney

            You have just proved me right in all I said not so balance and reason.

            if I was wrong you would have taken apart my posts, point by point clearly arguing where I was wrong and argument with reason, logic, and supporting evidence as would be required in a legal court or academic paper or assignment

            The fact you have avoided this with childish comments like

            ‘Time for your lie down Joey, don’t forget the little pill.’

            Shows you are avoiding a direct confrontation with the points raised. Logically the only reason to do this is you have no counter argument for them showing them to be right.

            You may was well be saying that line to someone in a law court case who has fingerprint, DNA, CCTV, Witness evidence.

            Sorry but only science based, rational logical arguments counts not snidy put downs to try and make the class laugh.

            What next calling me four eyes as wear glasses? how about saying I must have ginger hair, how about laughing and saying look he wear Merril trainers not Pumps ha ha ha he must be wrong? How about poop poop face or some other nonsense.

            Some back when you can argue like an adult

          • balance_and_reason

            Joey, it wouldn’t be fair to argue with someone who is clearly intellectually retarded; now be a good boy and go read your Koran.

          • Joey Feliney

            if I was retarded then you would not need to stick to childish insults and would stick to the points I raised and prove your superiority by ripping them to shreds.

            I stand by by statement that by not fighting directly you prove me right and each attempt to avoid this ad put me down personally proves this futher.

            its like you trying to say a tennis player is retarded, need pill is useless, is this, is that is the other.

            I personally if I thought someone was rubbish at tennis when they were making out they were great would challenge them to a game.

            Only those in the wrong duck direct questions and direct arguments and those in the right don’t need to.

            You can insult me till the cows come home when I say. But it in no way proves you right…

            You may as well be saying the same to me for saying you can build a sail boat out of duct tape.

            All I need to do is show a episode of Mythbusters where this was done. I prefer the direct approach when right.

            Oh and I totoally oppose both the koran and bible as both support ignorance deranged violent cult ideology

          • balance_and_reason

            You have clearly been watching a whole lot of TV…may I suggest switching off and reading a few books.

          • Joey Feliney

            Again balance as you have not counter argued the points ideally in a numbered fashioned again you show me to be right that you are unable to address the points raised directly and thus talking nonsense and doing personal attacks.

            Those in the right do not directly attack the person they PROVE the points to be in the wrong.

            Your posts thus show you to be an uneducated troll unable to construct a reasoned argument.

            I do read. I read the likes of the Minton report that the Guardian was not allowed to publish and see things on T the news would not show like peoepl being burned alive in kenya, stoned to death graphically and the photos of the abuse at the Abu Garabe centre deemed to graphic for television, likewise photos and video of female genital mutilaiton as pushed by religions like islam, environmental devestation of the living lands of the ogoni peoeple and documentaries like ‘Saving Africa’s Which Children’ showing how christians have hacked up and burned alive children.

            Also currently reading the Anarchists Cookbook, Have some nice recepies.

            Now how about you start dealing with the issues of homophobic bullying and mysogonoy and how bullies need dealing with

          • balance_and_reason

            Seems like you have been surfing the free view box very heavily Joe; are you sure you are using your time in a fully constructive manner? All these threats to kill school teachers..mmm…they are not perfect but seems a little harsh. Maybe you need to take up something useful to deal with your anger issues; may I suggest crochet? you can make some useful mats for the table and it is quietly satisfying and calming for the mentally agitated.

          • Joey Feliney

            You are wrong its pure logic…

            The magdelen asylums continued for decades and had 30,000 girls most having babies ripped from their arms, many raped for one reason alone.

            People talked and thought like you.

            if they thought like me all the nuns and priests within a week of starting to abuse the girls would have been killed in their sleep thus would have been incapable of hurting anyone ever again along with anyone in the town who even thought the term slut or whore, anyone viewing female sexuality as a sin and if this was done country wise you would eradicate the evil thinking leading to the abuse of the girls.

            Likewise The rochdale abuse of 1400 girls, how about the billions of victims of honour killing, forced marriage, female genital mutilation.

            In the same way why should those who studied hard, who have talent, who care for the jobs they do, who care and are nice to others be denied their careers and lives ruined by evil peoepl like you that support their abuse simply as they choose a culture that is alternative and different from the bland norm for having coloured hair, tattoos, piercings. Why should girls be abused, hurt, name called hated for simply expressing their sexuality as they grow into adolescence such as disney stars who have nude photos for boyfriends like what happend to Vanessa Hudgens?

            The best and most constructive use of time is to encourage the eradication and revenge on anyone who is unjust and not nice to others who themselves have not harmed others,

            Ie wipe out any bully, exploiter, gang thugs, anyone who abuses or denies jobs to those for having coloured hair, being gay, lesbain, witch, goth, metaller, punk, hippy, genger hair, birth marks, for being in a student teacher couples…

            Fix the world so only nice folk are left and everyone has to be nice to each others, all business is fair , all in the 3rd world get paid the equivalent of those in first world countries, So no african has to live in a metal shanty town hut with starving ill kids. If an american gets a suberban home with Nice TV and kids in university then all doing the same level of work world wide gets the same.

            Crochet is useless. if people use bombs on all estate thug gangs, if anyone found using sweat shop labour was terminated and their money distributed amongst all their exploited, all religious beleivers in cults that were not gender equal sexually liberal and gays friendly, all bullied having the class beat them to death…

            or better still devices attached to heads that caused agonising pain to anyone having thoughts involving pleasure from abuse or exploitation to others then no more crime and nobody allowed to be mean or unjust to others or as close to that as possible is much more useful than your matts.

            how Much better to have a world where nobody care if someone is gay or straight, alternative or mainsteam, flirty , dating consentually but outside the norm pushing consent laws a bit but where both are mature enough to know what they want.

            Calming only occurs when no injustice, discrimination, abuse, bullying occurs any more., Till then anyone who is unjust, mean, discriminatory can be dealt with and that is how most decent people want it.

            Who would not want a school where all the kids are pleasant to each other, where people are employed purelly on merit of talent, skill, creativity or potential and drive to want to learn and train to do well. Where little old ladies can sleep under the stars on estates and the young do not prey but help others, where all get equal and fair treatment.

            Only those like you into abusing and preying on others would have a problem with this.

            it is clear when people voiced concernes about Rochdale abuse, the abuse of saville, the magdelen asylums, when little children say they are being abused, raped, girls saying their fear honour killing or forced marriage rape your response would be that they should take up crochet? make mats and that nobody should get agitated on finding out about child molestation, abuse, racsim, and discrimination.

            I prefer someone do something about the abuse, instant, perminant, and make sure it wont occur any more, hence suggestion that there can be nor more abuse and the abusers dealt with. Perminately so there is no more thinking like theirs where the abuse is suppressed by the terms like family values and appropraiteness

          • Guest

            What a complete load of Bullshite!

          • Joey Feliney

            If that was true and i was speaking bullshit you would take each statement I made and prove it wrong with a logical arguement, the fact you could not do this proves me right.

            For example you cannot say it is bs that you can use C4 explosive to BBQ burgers as this was successfuly done on the mythbusters TV show

          • Guest

            Do you get paid in Rubbles or USD?

          • Joey Feliney

            Given I work in the UK I get paid in Great British pounds.

            I support neither Russia or the UK but prefer polices of scandavian countries

          • Guest

            There are plenty of russian Pole Dancers in Thailand, they earn more money there than Putinland! LOL.

          • Joey Feliney

            Given that those in russian sex industries are often rape victims being sex trafficed it should not matter where they are and the abusers take the money. There are only a couple of Russian agogo clubs in Thailand, not pole dance clubs. Most in Thailand employ those from north thialand.

            Not defending russia, Im defending abuse victims like gays and attacking the schools for supportign abuse

          • Ed

            On the contrary, anyone who starts with a vague and ill-defined negative category like ‘cultural Marxists’ is signalling they don’t deserve to be taken terribly seriously.

            And it may be an inconvenient fact to bigots that (e.g.) gay marriage was supported by such a heavy majority of the population, as well as by all mainstream political parties. But it remains true.

        • balance_and_reason


      • justejudexultionis

        There is no such thing as ‘capitalist society’ as capitalism is entirely inimical to the creation of any kind of functioning society, as Thatcher so famously reminded us. Your obsession with ‘communism’ is bizarre and highly anachronistic. There are very few dogmatic Marxists left in this country, only traces of cultural Marxism.

        • Wee Scitter

          Yes, I am aware of all that and largely agree. The problem is that there are are plenty of useful idiots left over though, who haven’t connected the dots fully between cause and effect, and keep chanting the same old slogans wildly exaggerating largely emotional non-issues and stoking identity politics, as they wrongly think doing so makes them more kind, correct and morally righteous than anyone else. This has a snowball effect as the emotional social pressures maintain themselves, with destructive ideologies still being promoted in institutions which are no longer externally subverted..

          PS: in my local vicinity the British government has appeased a hard-left Marxist terror movement into power still unashamedly using these tactics over and over so it isn’t as anachronistic as you may think.

          • Joey Feliney

            Here is a thought for you Scitter…

            How come the most successful and happy fair socieities are the scandanvains who treat peoepl fairly equally and are ssexaully liberal including to gays and the 3rd world violent countries who are backwards all think like you?

        • Grace Ironwood

          Margaret Thatcher – society quote
          “I think we’ve been through a period where too many people have been given to understand that if they have a problem, it’s the government’s job to cope with it. ‘I have a problem, I’ll get a grant.’ ‘I’m homeless, the government must house me.’ They’re casting their problem on society. And, you know, there is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first. It’s our duty to look after ourselves and then, also to look after our neighbour. People have got the entitlements too much in mind, without the obligations. There’s no such thing as entitlement, unless someone has first met an obligation.”

          • Pacificweather

            Yet, when they did look to themselves she set the police on them. Not known for consistency was Mrs. T.

      • Sarka

        Homosexual relations were criminalised in the USSR almost up to the point of its dissolution.

        • Wee Scitter

          Not in the early days of the Bolshevik revolution. Once you have the power you no longer need to destabilise.

      • Barbara Val

        Normal, healthy human relationships… oh dear. Painful to read.

      • Joey Feliney

        Thats all nonsense , purely capitalisim means drugs, guns, sex traffcing, child prostitution, exploitation of the 3rd world, robbery and slavoury as thats what makes the most money..

        Morality is about how you treat others and familly is about people caring and supporting each other which can include friends, extended families, biker gangs, communes etc and peoepl being gay or stright makes no different.

        You avoid the single mother issue with good contraception and sex education and also bringing up boys not to be girl bashing thugs.

        Marriage is not just there to procreate and females not your baby factories

        Your thinking is like islamic state terrorists

        • Guest

          PROVE IT!

          • Joey Feliney

            Captialism is only concerned with maximising profits caring nothing for people, its against regulation such as those protecting workers thus unrestricted capitalisim prefers a slave labour force with no consideration for environment or welfare for anyone, making doing business in commodities that ideally are addictive or criminal as these are the most profitable.

            As consentual sexual activity between those of mid teens plus engaging in safe sex practices between those who care for each others are harmless and enjoyable for those involved logically it cannot be immoral as morality is based purely on how you treat others thus a nudist beach club with wet t shirt like competitions with orgie parties cannot be considered immoral if nobody is being bullied.

            It does not make a difference if you are gay or straight or bi as long as nobody is victimised .

            As it can be seen comparing the likes of a Summer Bay Village with a violent ghetto, It is not just parents who bring up and influence children . Gangs, drugs, bullies the community all has an influence hence the statement that its the community that brings up a kid as can be seen comparing islamic, viking, spartan, hippies and other societies and cultures.

            Comparisons between the likes of scandanvian or netherland countries which are known for good contraception provision and sex education from a young age compared to those who repress it and view teenagers as children as can be seen


            and similar sites

            The fact females now have most of the jobs males do and do as well show their lives should be as forfilling thus not just there as baby factories

            This can be

      • Joey Feliney

        Nobody will break down normal sexula relationships of straight flk as guess what? they are straight like gays are gays and bibs double their pulling chances.

        • Guest

          Putrid likes Elton. LOL.

          • Joey Feliney

            Ok I take it you mean Elton John but who is Putrid?

            What relevance has that got to do with anything?

            This is about private and public schools letting bullies and homophobic ones specific from nasty repressive cultures instead of the kids being disciplined and the bullies dealt with instead of schools pandering to them as parents have money

    • justejudexultionis

      Gay people are subject to far more abuse than your average ‘fat’ or physically deformed person. It seems that our hypocritical, bourgeois culture just can’t deal with difference and must have its scapegoats – not unlike Nazi Germany.

      • vieuxceps2

        You claim that “gays” get bullied more than fatties or cripples.How do you know such a thing? Are there statistics to support your contention? And why “bourgeois”? And why Nazi Germany? Each usage is a sure sign of a lefty activist Can you not accept that the question was asked in a spirit of enquiry-Why politicise it?

    • cartimandua

      Because the evidence says if there is effective protection for gays there is for everyone else. An anti gay ethos leads to more depression and suicides in both straight and gay children and teens.
      There is a well reviewed study out of Columbia University which says this.
      Its your bigotry or your kids.
      Your choice, and that should have been explained to the parent of the nasty aggressive boy. He might of course be “dealing with”his own sexuality.
      The most homophobic generally are.

    • Joey Feliney

      I aggree, kill all the bulies, sexiat, homophoibics etc and any staff that support them

      This includes all the sexually repressive appropriates and any who abuse people or restrict jobs and education to those with coloured hair and tattoos, only let the nice ones live

      • vieuxceps2

        I have read some of the comments under your name “Joey Feliney” and I have noted the distinct differences in the styles, intelligence and simple level of education shown in them.Add to this the curious anomaly of the “upvotes”granted compared with those of measured and sensible posts and I come to the conclusion that “Joey Feliney” is a group rather than an individual writing in and supporting each other to counter any response against this emphasis on homo-sexuality which Wee Scitter and others have identified.
        Freedom of speech, no doubt, but you really should not pretend to be other than you are.I am afraid your policy strengthens the idea that promotion of homo-sxuality is a political policy,and that we, the majority are right to fear it.

        • Joey Feliney

          Actually thats nonsense. there is just one of me… The quality of the typing would depend on how long is being taken to type and check typing errors. Such as cramming in responses in a break there will not be the time to check all typing errors. I type at 71wpm looking at the keyboard and thinking the words being said as concerns are the issues not prefect typing. Thus there will be lots of typing errors.

          But the points raised will be sound and easy to be backed up.

          I have no problem with the justice fight for homosexuality but equally would do the same with many issues like having those who fire or exclude people due to hair styles, tattoos or sexting photos disfigured for life and crippled for their discriminatory abuse, likewise those who deny girls entry into proms for skirt length and any other sexual conservative so called appropriate repression.

          Those in teacher student couples like Jeremy Forest and Megan Stammers have the right to kill anyone trying to arrest and split them apart, anyone being abused for ginger hair can scalp their abusers.

          And those in the 3rd world have the right to any level of violence till companies pay them enough income to share the lives of amaerican suburb dwellers not be forced to accpet virtual slave labour.

          There is nothing wrong with the promotion of homosexaulity as you put it… its just the campaign needs to be spread to all those who are unjustly repressed

          • vieuxceps2

            Believe me, “Joey”I would love there to be only one of you. But I fear that my original impression remains unaltered.You are a troll-mob.

          • Joey Feliney

            PROVE it…. there is only mythbusters law were all accusations need to be proven by evidence or your argument is no different to saying I am a demon from the hell mouth who rides on a broom stick cackling see my pretties.

            Not a troll a troll only targets people personally. They dont make people think about issues

            Im a political social activist campaigning on behalf of the abused and different who backs arguments with the facts, logic and reason. YOu see if I was wrogn you would not be writing posts like


            Believe me, “Joey”I would love there to be only one of you. But I fear that my original impression remains unaltered.You are a troll-mob

            You would be saying that on sentence 3 , paragraph 2 of this post you said


            ‘ (The affore mentioned paragraph)

            This is clearly wrong as shown on the documentary ‘ (name of documentary and link to either the documentary or a reference to where is could be found).

            Or other logical rational argument, or list of experience.

            For example.

            Mich was wrong when he states


            That wet T shirt competitions are an offence and abuse of young women

            A personal experiences show that not only do those taking part look like they were having fun, but that their girls then milk it for all the free drinks, dates, snogs, one night stands, long term boyfriends they can get out of it and those complaining are simply the repressed and jealous who lack the confidence to have a go themselves,.

            Plus that these kinds of competitions get people all mixing and flirting thus help those who are lonley make friends.

            Now this is a solid argument based on experience and logic

            Something like this


            Believe me, “Joey”I would love there to be only one of you. But I fear that my original impression remains unaltered.You are a troll-mob.

            or you must be needing to take you pills he he…

            or Joey is a poop face

            is just the childish nonsense from those who are so in the wrong they cannot put together a simple counter argument

          • Guest

            Feliney, your a F’in russian Troll, end of story! That’s one of your Bloodimir Putrids favourite lines, “PROVE IT” You ruskies tell that many lies you don’t know when your telling the truth. How’s you rubble doing today. LOL.

          • Joey Feliney

            Clearly you are a total moron Guest as if I was russian

            1) Why the fk would I be siding with gays and other abuse victims? Stop pause and think about that one as if all these russians were anti gay then surely I would be homophobic

            2) If I was a troll I would be only picking on people and doing personal attacks not campaigning on behalf of the abused. i would not be posting long detailed logical and rational posts with referencing.


    • Ed

      ‘Since when did it become so essential to safeguard such persons from abuse?’. When most of us realized that being gay was perfectly natural, unthreatening, and that those who ‘objected’ to it were narrow-minded bigots. Do try and keep up…

    • Kara Connor

      I don’t recall ginger people being prevented from getting married, ir being subject to the death penalty or years of imprisonment for being ginger. Nor can I think of any organized religions who deflated ginger people to be abominations, and actively campaign to deny them civil rights.. If you don’t care about the excessively high suicide rate amongst young LGBT people then have the guts to say it, and stop pretending that taking measures to try and protect a particularly vulnerable group, who face societal discrimination on top of school bullying, somehow takes something away from others.

      • vieuxceps2

        No,don’t think gingers were ever legally singled out.Never said they were.The churches didn’t mind’em either, with the possible exception of Juas Iscariot of course, reputed to be a carrot-top.
        Different matter with homos, although I don’t recall them being “deflated” as you seem to.Only in churchy ways,though,not civil rights.
        I don’t, it is true ,give much thought to the suicide rate among any given group as you seem to.What’s it like for Rosicrucians or Milkmen,any idea?
        Your idea that today homosexal (is that the same as LGBT?) people are vulnerable is quite risible. On the contrary, it appears to be almost mandatory for those in the pubic eye, especially the female sort ,to be at least bi-and preferably fully homo-.
        I fear that like all minorities who cry loud and long enough, your claim for equality has degenerated into an insistence on special treatment.But that, of course, means that the rest of us are thereby excluded.Not fair, that.

        • Kara Connor

          The second you admitted you don’t know what LGBT means, you pretty much excluded yourself from your opinion carrying any weight whatsoever. Your ludicrous claim that an oppressed minority’s legitimacy decreases if they continue to complain about continued unfair treatment merely reinforces the intellectual paucity if your position.

          • vieuxceps2

            Just to let you know ,Kara, that I do in fact know what LGBT means. Whenever my girlfriends dump me, I always send a letter with LGBT on the envelope. Then you see, they realise I’m saying “Let’s Get Back Together”. So far it has never worked.
            I don’t mind being scolded for misbehaviour if guilty, but I didn’t say what you acuse me of.I said that minorities begin by seeking equality and end by demanding special treatment. I consider that is now where homosexual lobbying has reached.If you want to be part of society as a whole, a questionable point according to LGBT people, I suggest you do as the rest of us do. Get on with your lives and just shut up about yourselves.
            PS:I don’t think it is possible to reinforce a paucity. One can’t add to a lack,can one?

          • Kara Connor

            Please enumerate the special rights you think L:GBT people have. Not being beaten up and having schools ensure that students are not mistreated is now a “special right”. I’m sure you do want us to shut up, since these issues don’t personally affect you. Here’s the deal – stop the mistreatment and discrimination and we’ll shut up about it. Until then, we’ll continue to highlight inequality and prejudice.

          • vieuxceps2

            “Here’s the deal”…..???No,here’s the deal. You acronyms live your life and leave the rest of us alone. eh? Why not make your own society if you don’t like ours? Your victimhood is tiresome. Bored now, will write no more.

          • Kara Connor

            I’m fine with the majority of society. Bigots like you are a declining minority. You might want to move to Russia, or a theocracy like Iran, or maybe Uganda, to find some like-minded people.

    • Nigel

      The law does not agree.

  • Zanderz

    Sounds like another subject we are not allowed to talk about. So much for a spirit of free enquiry and open debate.

    Students, remember, you’re either pro-homosexuality or you’re expelled.

    • Dan Lee

      Students. You’re either anti racist or expelled.

    • Pacificweather

      Students, remember, you can threatend to shoot gays in school if your daddy is rich but if you do it outside the police will call you an Islamist and shoot you.

  • balance_and_reason

    This sounds like a left wing gay propaganda article….of course kids like punting outre and non pc views about…it winds up the teacher….the time to do it is at school…how utterly pious and ridiculous of this writer to call for heinous sanctions on a pupil of 16 putting silly idea’s up…sounds like something out of eastern germany…truly …today’s lefties are closer to fascists than the fascists themselves..take a hike joshi.

    • IainRMuir

      My thoughts exactly.

      If a 48 year old Prime Minister has a silly idea, it should be taken seriously. A 16 year old has one – so what’s new?

      • Doublechin

        Great minds, I guess

  • HCintheM

    First world problems … the attitudes mentioned are problems whether in our public schools or in Africa, Russia or China. And what about the hidden price of more – cash-strapped or not – backwards foreigners anywhere is this country? That’s not to say we shouldn’t take any in; we should seek to integrate them – in our public schools for example this task should be relatively easy – be so effortlessly superior as to convince students to emulate our civilisation and attitudes; everywhere. It is most important to defend British character and British values.

  • Stephen Milroy

    For a moment there I thought that picture was men with beards rather than the back heads of schoolgirls!

    • justejudexultionis

      I can recommend a good optician.

      • little islander

        I wear prescription glasses. Other recommendation?

  • Alex

    As someone who was taught by Dr Pyke, I resent the implied accusation that he was somehow forgiving of a case of homophobia, which is in no way representative of the school. The use of diplomatic language to address a problem does not mean that such an ideology is ‘acceptable’ at Dulwich College.

    • Doublechin

      The class teacher: “the implication expressed that he will not encounter such liberal views here at Dulwich is surely problematic as is the idea that such disgusting views as his (and presumably the rest of his family’s) are acceptable at our school as long as they are deeply held.”

  • John Kenner

    On a related note, we find union agitator Michael Mulgrew, of the UFT, preaching violence against those who oppose central education planning: http://bit.ly/1szlhk9

  • thomasaikenhead

    Well when all is said and done, the pupils pay fees and schools want the money so the “zero tolerance” policy will be ditched!

  • misomiso

    Now the Middle classes do what Tristram Hunt, Emily Thornberry, NIck Clegg and Ed Miliband do, and live in the catchment areas of the best state schools in the country.

    Selection by house prices is ok, but selection on ability? A Sin against Socialism!

  • Amaechi Jones

    I’m a dyed-in-the-wool leftie but I say make these pupils accept the values of the school, especially regarding violence, or kick them the fuck out.

    • David S

      Shouldn’t that be “and” rather than “but”? The second half of your sentence is not in opposition to the first, as we expect lefties to demand conformity to their values.
      The head was a bit wet, really, though. Should have said to the boy “that really isn’t very nice, and you might find that it’s you that is on the wrong end of bullying if you are not more civilised in the way you express your opinions”.

      • Pacificweather

        He could have added, “If you threaten to kill gays outside school you will end up in prison”.

      • Joey Feliney

        You dont say to the boy thats is not very nice. You day be nice of your throat will be cut when you sleep or your testicals cut off

  • nancoise

    Back up. The writer says:

    ‘These days the price is just too high, says Andrew Halls, head of King’s College School in Wimbledon, and he’s been honest enough to name the cause: the hordes of prospective parents from other countries, oligarchs and oil men, all jostling for places for their progeny. They push the price of an elite ‘British’ education up beyond the reach of any ordinary Brit.’

    How does an extra cohort of applicants push prices up? How? If you’ve got room for 120 new students and it costs £10k pa to educate each of them when there are eight pupils vying for each place, how does it cost more to educate them when there are twelve pupils vying for each place? Why is it necessary to sell out the soul of a long-established school just because it can be done?

    • rolandfleming

      Absolutely. The best schools are meritocratic with strict academic entrance criteria. The idea that you increase fees just to make a bigger profit from wealthy dunces is pathetic short term thinking.

  • monty61

    And the logic for taxpayer subsidy of these august institutions is?

    • David S

      Leaving aside the contentious use of the word subsidies to describe tax breaks, the answer is that they save the taxpayer the cost of educating the children in the state system. There are 615,000 children in private education, saving the taxpayer £1614 per child according to research by Aviva, or an annual total of almost exactly £1 billion, dwarfing the tax breaks of £700 million estimated by Tristram Hunt. In addition the private schools pay £4 billion a year in tax in spite of their charitable status.

      The state secondary schools near my home are bursting at the seams and are not in any position to take in their share of the 615,000.

  • Andrew Smith

    If the world really is teeming with parents desperate to send their children to be privately-educated in Great Britain, then surely it must be a seller’s market. The schools could expel as many homophobic Ukranians as they liked and fill the ranks from the excess pool of Hong Kong Chinese.

  • Guest

    Protected characteristics-
    Age; disability; gender reassignment; marriage & civil partnership; pregnancy & maternity; race; religion & belief; sex; sexual orientation.

    It’s like the 10 commandments only there’s a spare, because ya never know.

  • Seat of Mars

    Between the state schools full of the children of the detritus of the world and the private schools full of the offspring of the foreign rich, where are the English children supposed to go? Where can English children go to be with their own kind and to absorb the culture and heritage that is their birthright? I feel a profound sense of sadness and anger at what has become of this country.

  • justejudexultionis

    Cameron Pyke was in the year above me at Cambridge. Superficially pleasant sort of chap but ultimately a deluded lackey of a vile, reactionary system of private education.

    • David S

      I bet he speaks highly of you, as well.

  • justejudexultionis

    I think for these problems we should blame capitalists, who are ready to sell this country to the highest bidder and have betrayed every principle of national sovereignty and ordinary morality in their quest for filthy lucre.

    • balance_and_reason

      oh do shut up.

  • Marcel M. Pfister

    Had I been in in this school I would have gladly punched this Chinese student’s face in a dark corner during recess.

    • GraveDave

      What if he was a Kung Fu fighter?

    • balance_and_reason


  • GraveDave

    the Hong Kong billionaire Cecil Chao Sze-tsung’s offer of £40 million to any man who could persuade his lesbian daughter Gigi to marry him.

    Why didn’t her father just propose to his daughter himself.

    Seriously if this is a public school it makes you wonder what’s been happening in the inner cities comps all these years and what they’ve kept hidden.

  • Ambientereal

    Well it is about culture clash between people of very different regions. I believe it is good that elite children come to UK to go to school, and it is good too that they pay much more than native ones. On one side it spreads the influence of British culture and on the other helps fill the cash boxes of the school. About special issues that arise it is normal that they do and the school directives must deal appropriately with them. But after few years the student will adapt and a helpful citizen of the human kind will return to his homeland with a wider view of the world.

  • Teaching kids about kindness and tolerance should help combat
    bullying. They can learn from upbeat songs, like “Be a Buddy, not a Bully” on YouTube


    • David S

      Do you know any 16 year olds?

  • Doublechin

    Dulwich College, behaviour policy: ‘Remarks deemed to be
    homophobic…will not be tolerated.’

  • JimHHalpert

    Is this the most pointless article ever to appear in the Spectator? Did you lose an advert and need some filler?

  • Sarka

    Although they did not mention any problems of grossily illiberal views among foreign pupils, several people I know who have taught or currently teach at well-known public schools, and a few young people I know who have recently attended them (relatives and children of friends) do talk about the increasing numbers of foreign students as problematic in some ways. First there is the issue of the fees, as mentioned here, though I must say that the steep rise in independent school fees, pricing them out of the range of many old boys and girls for their own children (often middle class professionals but simply not affluent enough!) started before the arrival of more than the traditionally occasional very rich foreign pupil…But second, and more highlighted issue, was what might be called, in parallel with wider social phenomena, “loss of social cohesion”.

    My god-daughter, who attended a quite famous school on a budget rate because her mother was a house mistress, agreed with her mother that for example the Russians/Ukrainians, the Far-Easterners and the locals all tended to sit at separate tables for meals and social occasions, but stressed that this wasn’t because of any special xenophobia on the part of the British pupils, but because the foreign pupils (often markedly richer even than the British), were not all that interested in school life and traditions…(a great many came in the sixth form only), and though of course some friendships were made, this happened much less, in any lasting way, than one might hope. And typically mainly between locals and the

    few West Europeans (German, French etc.) or e.g. Latin Americans, who had no substantial “group” to retreat into. Another teacher told me that while the foreign pupils were often, even typically, academically very efficient performers, they often seemed to lack much lively interest or engagement with subject matter (in his case history).

    Almost certainly, this problem affects boarding schools far more than the Independent day schools, for the former naturally attract more foreign students and are also proportionately far more expensive, and the latter’s domestic market is much larger – the top ones can keep up greater selectivity too, and are also better placed to offer more free and assisted places to promising kids who cannot afford the fees – as by God they should, though the fact that they do not do so as much as before is hardly entirely their fault.

    . .

  • cartimandua

    Yup there are Muslim students who “deeply feel” that women are second class people.
    They should be disabused of that preferably by a woman teacher.

  • Bonkim

    Is Britain prostituting itself for a few $s more? People were attracted to British schools for British traditions and values – not bring their rubbish values here.

  • Landscape

    Yet these schools have charitable status?
    It’s time private schools had to pay their own way. Or to put it another way, pay some blooming tax!

  • WarriorPrincess111111

    Public schools serve no more purpose than as a social introduction to those who are in a position of privilege in order to further one’s career opportunities. The majority who attend such establishments lack empathy with the general public since they are immersed in a very contained and sheltered situation. Very few emerge with the ability to face real life situations and in such instances are completely useless.
    Such people are tolerated, just – they do nothing to win admiration, nor gain the respect from the majority that they feel that they are entitled to.
    It is high time that these establishments encompassed more of the real world and taught the students to rely on intelligence in preference to an ‘old boy’s’ network – only then will they become of use to real world and clarify the real wheat from the chaff.

  • SimonToo

    What an odd article. Was the pupil in question merely disrupting the class, or was he maintaining a point of view on the subject under discussion? If the latter, surely that is the whole point of a liberal education (and free speech) – to be able to argue a point of view with which others disagree. Whether or not the pupil holds those opinions is irrelevant, although in some ways it is all the more credit to him if he can sustain his argument when it is putting views which are not actually his own.

  • Laguna Beach Fogey

    at that point a newly arrived foreign student, about 16 years old, piped up.

    A bit vague, don’t you think?

  • Laguna Beach Fogey

    such outrageous and aggressive views

    These are, actually, quite sound views, held by most sensible Westerners until the ’60s Occupation (which is still ongoing).

  • Laguna Beach Fogey

    I had a similar experience at school, involving my views on the presence of Africans in England, though I was not expelled.

    I was brought before a committee and given some (minor) punishments, the nature of which I’ve forgotten.

    I framed the headmaster’s letter to me and put it on the wall, which irritated them.

  • sabrina mark

    My husband has abandon me and the kids for the the past 8months now, and refuse to come back because he was hold on by a woman whom he just met, for that, my self and the kids has been suffering and it has been heel of a struggle, but I decide to do all means to make sure that my family come together as it use to, then I went online there I saw so many good talk about this spell caster whose email is onimalovespell@gmail.com so I had to contact him and in just 4days as he has promised, my husband came home and his behavior was back to the man I got married to.I cant thank the spell caster enough what what he did for me, I am so grateful. I even spoke to the spell caster over the phone, to confirm his existence. His email again is: onimalovespell@gmail.com

  • Jackthesmilingblack

    Foreign students attending independent school in UK are an invisible export. If you don’t recognise your customers and their needs, you don’t deserve to have any.

    • Said “Jackthesmilingblack”, Japanese schizophrenic patient, educated in some boarding school in Oxfordshire, 1988-1992; who therefore thinks that he is British—not!

  • Joey Feliney

    Sounds like decent students and parents need to kill the heads and seize control to declare this justice zone schools then turf pout the homophobicvabusers or relgious nutters and anyone with them… thats how you teach children to treat bad authourioty and bully lovers

  • 3x4_34

    Why wasn’t this schoolboy allowed to voice his opinion without being subjected to the tell tale tittletat of a PC teacher? This is a child, a child remember, in the process of intellectual development. Happily, not as yet, a member of the wimpy brigade that infests Britain.
    Now, all that he and this entire class has learnt, is that to voice an opinion contrary to that of a teacher is…. dangerous. Proven by the fact that this adult calling herself a teacher, decided to prove her PC worthiness by publicising the fact that she heard a child’s opinion which she personally did not agree with.
    The teacher is way out of line. She is paid to teach children, to expand and guide their thinking, not to police or publicize their thinking.

  • Peter Gardner

    Hold on a minute. School pupils are supposed to be expressing their views openly and discussing them in order to become educated, not punished. If a pupil says something outrageous is it beyond the wit of teachers in Britain’s finest schools to explain why the expressed view is wrong, is there no countering argument within the grasp of teachers, only punishment by government diktat?

    If one wants to be political or strategic about it education is one of the many ways in which values of tolerance, decency, democracy, freedom can be spread to visitors from other parts of the world. Banning freedom of speech to the young still in need of education – which is the reason for their presence in an English school – is plain stupid.

    • It’s a good way for teachers to earn disgrace, scorn, and synonymous attributes that makes teaching harder than what is the case.

  • Sneakus

    As lamentable as such views are, if anyone thinks they are “not in keeping with this country”, I suggest you spend a few hours in a bar in the City of London, on a City trading floor, in the stands at a not-quite-first-rate football team or a meeting of the BNP or Britain First – rather than presuming the entire country shares the views tacitly expressed by Radio Four (and much of our media besides). The Radio Four “house view” is laudable – but it is far from everyone’s. Let’s fight the enemy within as much as those overseas.

  • Deepak Into

    We also need to keep in mind that it’s fat-cat teachers’ unions who are blocking urgently needed school reforms: http://bit.ly/1zYBfp4

  • AndrewMelville

    The thing is why would a British parent wish to expose his children to the spawn of Russian thugs and the like.

    Schools which court scum for their money will regret it in the long run.

  • Anthorny

    St Bede’s private school in East Sussex, founded in 1895 has now changed its name to just Bede’s. It was reported that this change was made in order to make it more acceptable to non-Christians.

  • ADW

    Britain just doesn’t have the gumption to admit to the fundamental problem of mass immigration – the importation of views anathema to here. The left think that every single person who comes to these shores wants to celebrate diversity, and that any criticism of any minority behaviour is motivated by race. If they get any evidence of intolerance by minorities, they shrug it off by saying its a tiny minority. The right does not know what it stands for any more, at least Cameron doesn’t beyond wanting to get reelected. And so incidents like these will grow in. Number and no one will do a thing.

  • andylowings

    to suggest that a single comment by a single Chinese boy about a gay march is what the British schools` culture war is about, deliberately misses a far bigger point I suggest, though one far less able to be spoken about.

  • AverageGuyInTheStreet

    Yet if an English child voiced negative opinions in school about immigration and the vast hordes of third worlders in the country there’s a good chance social services or the police would step in.

  • Simon_in_London

    It’s only 17 years ago that Britain went Politically Correct. Before New Labour it was forbidden for local authorities to *promote* homosexuality! Britain and the West have changed a lot, the rest of the world is not so different to us in 1997 – certainly in 1977.

  • Grace Ironwood

    Having perused some of Joey feliney’s posts, I have concluded that he- she- it is a loon.

  • Bobserver

    Schools in the old days never use to emphasize sexuality. Today alternative lifestyles are made a part of sex education. All the while many overseas pupils come from more culturally reserved and traditional backgrounds. All this shows that there are still many countries in the world where the population doesn’t believe that homosexuality, transgenderism, intersex, etc are natural states or that sexuality of any sort is something to flaunt openly. Globalization of business and trade does not necessarily apply to cultural conventions or ideas about human sexuality. Putting a multinational mix of pupils together doesn’t just bring out tensions regarding race and politics but also on ideas on what is acceptable culturally/socially to many of these overseas feepayers.

  • Guest

    As a pupil of Dulwich College I can say without hesitation that this
    article was only written with the intent to tarnish the reputation of what is
    truly a brilliant school. firstly the idea that wealthy people are forcing
    prices for schools up is not true, in fact because often the more wealthy give
    larger sums of money, it is possible for more people to get bursaries and
    scholarships. Furthermore the incident gives a horrible idea that we are all
    extreme right wing fanatics, this is simply untrue, and on the topic of
    homophobia especially I am lucky to go to a very open and accepting school. The
    proof of this is that we have had many talks on homophobia by staff members in
    assemblies. Moreover I think that this article in itself is promoting racism
    and hatred towards people of different social backgrounds. The author Joshi
    Hermann is insinuating that the pupils from different countries are a terrible
    thing, this is simply untrue, and it makes the school more culturally diverse
    reducing racism. Also a common misconception the school fees are almost half
    what the author stated for the majority of students. This article is clearly
    just an attempt to smear public schools by a person who was unfortunate enough
    to not receive such an education and thus feels that they are somehow a
    terrible thing. You have implied that Dr Spence did something wrong by
    protecting a child’s identity. Children have the right to privacy.