Did my taunt push the new ‘Jihadi John’ to join Isis?

I offered to get Abu Rumaysah a one-way ticket to Syria only weeks before he fled

9 January 2016

9:00 AM

9 January 2016

9:00 AM

Even if Abu Rumaysah does turn out to be the new ‘Jihadi John’, shown on video this week presiding over the murder of five innocent men, I’m not sorry I encouraged him to go to Syria and join Isis.

The last time I saw the 32-year-old Briton (born to a UK Hindu family as Siddhartha Dhar) was at a BBC studio in London. He was one of a group of people who had been central to the extremist group al-Muhajiroun and its offshoots for years. In 2009 they had, through a front organisation, lured me into a set-up with more than a hundred Islamists which soon became violent and from which I was extracted by the police. It was unpleasant, but it did lead to the then Labour home secretary finally proscribing al-Muhajiroun. Since then I have been advised not to be in the proximity of any of their members or affiliates.

So 18 months ago, when the BBC asked me to discuss ‘What should be done about British Islamic extremists’ on their Sunday Morning Live programme, I said yes. When they said that the other guests would include not only Fleet Street heroine Dame Ann Leslie and Isis expert Shiraz Maher but also Abu Rumaysah, I explained that I wouldn’t and couldn’t be in the same room as him. And so on the day itself, while the rest of us broadcast from one studio, Abu Rumaysah broadcast his views from the studio next door.

As usual, Rumaysah didn’t exactly cover over his beliefs. This British-born man told us: ‘As a Muslim I would like to see the UK governed by the Sharia. It is far superior to democracy. I don’t really identify myself with British values. I am Muslim first, second and last.’ When we got onto the subject of Isis, he was full of praise and defensiveness. Videos of journalists being beheaded by the group were ‘lies’, he said. Accounts of the massacre of Yazidis and Christians were ‘exaggerations’. This led to general incredulity and also anger in the studio.

The presenter asked if Rumaysah would leave to join Isis. Dame Ann said she bet he wouldn’t because he was a coward. He insisted that ‘of course’ he would join if he could. At which I and others repeatedly asked: ‘Well why don’t you?’ At one point I even suggested we would do a whip-round in the studio to get him a one-way ticket out of the country that very night (see video, above, 15’30 in).

Abu Rumaysah, far left (Photo: PA Images)
Abu Rumaysah, far left (Photo: PA Images)

I can’t speak for the others, but I did feel a slight pang weeks later when I heard that Rumaysah had indeed gone to join Isis, taking his young family with him. There was also some amazement. At the time he put himself and his family on to a coach at Victoria station, Rumaysah was on police bail for membership of a proscribed group (al-Muhajiroun). Yet he made his way unhindered to Paris, and from there onwards to Syria. Once there he posted a photograph of himself on Twitter holding his newborn (fourth) child in one hand and a rifle in the other. ‘What a shoddy security system Britain must have to allow me to breeze through Europe to Islamic State,’ he tweeted.

And then this week he appeared to have filled the shoes of the late Jihadi John (Mohammed Emwazi). Two months since Isis’s most famous executioner was killed in a drone strike, here was another video with another set of executions (this time of five alleged ‘spies’) and another British accent doing the presenting.

Government Set To Ban Islamist Group That Planned Wootton Bassett March
(Photo: Getty)

Is it my old sparring partner, as much of the media is reporting? I don’t know. It could be. It sounds like him. True, a balaclava conceals a thinner face than that of my chubby fellow studio guest. But who would be surprised if weight loss is not one by-product of time spent in the caliphate?

Whether it is him or not, the Rumaysah story remains jarring. Not least as a reminder that he and his British friends are always vaguely comic figures until they turn up in an execution video with a knife or gun to someone’s head. The British tendency to treat such people as jokes has its benefits. It also has its limitations. Obviously if it does turn out to be him, then the Home Secretary and border police should hang their heads even lower. Who could possibly trust the government to secure our borders when it can neither keep extremists out nor in?

Isis have no dearth of willing executioners, though having one with a British accent is certainly a propaganda score. But for my part, I don’t regret that I taunted Rumaysah to leave. People like him have benighted and burdened our country for years and it seems to me that neither our domestic government nor our societal defences are remotely up to the task of dealing with such people here. We can only really address the matter abroad.

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  • Daidragon

    Was shocked to hear some bloke I did an IT course with a few years ago was killed in Syria recently. He was a top ISIS computer hacker apparently. Blown up in Raqqa. Must have been that ham sandwich I offered him at lunchtime. But seriously. It’s nothing to do with you. He’s a loon. Let’s hope someone gets him soon. Won’t be the RAF as they seem to be circling aimlessly overhead and not really doing much bombing. The Yanks or Russians will get him. They’ll then inform Cameron who will hold a press conference outside number 10 and pretend it was something to do with him.

    • Like the British navy, the RAF is largely a ceremonial stump of anything that existed in the past. It is hard to believe that we have allowed successive spineless governments to reduce our forces to the ridiculous boy scout groups we now have. I don’t blame the men and women of the forces, they have been continually strangled and deprived of resources until all we have left are a few infantry battle groups and some colourful chaps who ride horses up and down the Mal and strut about outside the Queen’s palaces.

      • MrKaplan

        Not to mention all the “murder” charges…

    • Brian Jones

      I love all this anti Cameron crap . Cameron and the Tories are the only party who were prepared to take the fight to ISIS in Syria and the reason the RAF doesn’t kill many is because they use specific targeting not carpet bombing and quite rightly are loathe to commit ground troops while the Middle East governments refuse to do so.

      • James Lawrence

        Absolutely right. He’s expended endless political capital trying to involve the UK in the fight against IS.

        • Brian Jones

          So your alternative is to roll over and let these people kill as many people as they want and eventually commit their atrocities in this country, it may have missed your notice but ISIS involved the UK by plotting their attacks on us. I’m afraid a lot of people seem to be so blinded by their party loyalty that they can’t see the threat that ISIS pose for our country. We can always stop this from happening by sending someone to talk to ISIS , are you prepared to volunteer to do that?

      • Daidragon

        The RAF have dropped a measly number of bombs. Irrelevant to the fight against ISIS. Their prescence is symbolic only. If you are going to be in it at least pull your weight. Libya showed we still have serious capability when we can be bothered.

  • Mow_the_Grass

    Only thing surprising here is that this individual was in fact Hindu.
    Hindus in India frequently come up against their Muslim bretheren in that country – and its mostly unpleasant.
    Strange – wonder what the motivation was.

    • johnb1945

      Large numbers of Indian and Pakistani Muslims, Sikhs and Hindus share Punjabi, Bengali or Hindustani ethnicity irrespective of religion. There is no racial difference, only a religious one.

      Who knows what his motivation was, but he did marry a Muslim from a very orthodox family.

      • Mow_the_Grass

        btw – when i mentioned racial – i refer to the race situation as it exists in UK -i e that black/white racism was probably a trigger in turning him towards islam/radicalization.
        That and of course the muslim marriage scenario which you mention.

        • johnb1945

          Doubtless the bloke has all kinds of perceived grievances, but it’s a pretty lamentable excuse.

          Sikhs, Hindus presumably face the same discrimination and they don’t mire their religion in violent, supremacist identity politics.
          In fact, the overwhelming majority of Muslims don’t either.

          I don’t perceive Britain to be a particularly racist country either. Even a place like Germany, where I used to live, there is a quiet, unspoken favour granted to ethnic Germans at the expense of “newcomers”. Even an Anglo Saxon like me was affected by it. You are not one of them and you never will be either.

          Do you think Britain is racist?

          • Mow_the_Grass

            Sometimes on these blog sites and others – one does get the feeling that this does exist but probably no more so than many other countries.
            Can never understand why ordinary Brits don’t unite together irrespective of race – to face down the real threat to us all ie radical islam.
            Its a ideological war rather than a race one.

          • johnb1945

            I think you are Israeli, correct? I seem to remember from previous interactions.

            Spectator is a conservative publication.

            If you went to conservative israeli publications like JPost and looked at the comments there, you would think Israelis are right wing, generally hawkish not only to Arabs but non-Jews with the possible exception of American evangelicals.

            If you went to Haaretz you would think Israelis are all left wing, humus munching liberals that beat themselves endlessly over the Palestinians.

            The truth is that there are all kinds of Israelis!

            The same is true here. There are all kinds.

            Having said this there are certain national traits which prevail, as anywhere.
            We have a tradition as a trading nation and colonial power. For centuries we have interacted and traded with different cultures.

            This has led us to be pragmatic and open, rather than philosophical, ideological and closed. A culture like the French culture is philosophical – all this secularism, fraternity, equality shpiel. If you go there, you have to fit into that, and Muslims don’t, which is why they are unassimilable. Sweden is the same – they have a philosophy of pacifist multiculturalism and social equality. Both countries pursue their philosophies regardless of whether it does them any good.

            Our tradition, by contrast, is just to make things up as we go along based on what we see before us. It’s the way of a trading Island nation. Pragmatic. You never know what you will encounter in your ventures or what will wash up on your shores, so don’t get any big ideas.

            I cannot think of when it would be pragmatic to be a racist. Of what benefit to anyone is having an ethnic underclass who do nothing except create an anti-social hazard for everyone else?
            So yeah, we grumble about foreigners but there is no easier country in Europe for a foreigner to come to and slot in. It’s been said we hate immigration but love immigrants.

            That’s how I would sum us up.

            We also take a more pragmatic approach to Islam than somewhere like Sweden. In Sweden it is difficult to freely criticise Islam.
            Not here – you can google the case of Pastor James McConnell which concluded 2 days ago. In Sweden he’d be in Jail. Richard Dawkins has been criticising Islam for years.

            And this is important, because as your rightly say, this is ultimately a battle of ideas.

            Freedom of speech is the ultimate pragmatist tool. Let all the ideas out, then we can decide which we think are the best. Islam – certainly the Salafi version of it, is a very bad idea, and only freedom of speech will defeat it.

          • Count Spencer

            Your comment should be put forward as the Cuck manifesto.

          • johnb1945

            You could write a manifesto for something else beginning with a “c” and a “u”.

  • octagon<3

    No you didn’t. Vile murdering filth don’t need excuses to be vile murdering filth. Perhaps sympathize with the children for having a scumbag for a father, but place the blame squarely on Dhar for putting his family in danger.

  • asdf

    Let me say my view ; some of the point to stop terrorism
    Hardly resist Islam
    Shut down mosque
    Do not allow children to study Islam
    Stop people converting to Islam
    If a person has to come to UK from Muslim country then need a background check; need a NOC from any other religious leader apart from Muslim.So this will help only to promote interfaith and they will stop attack against church/temple/synagogue in Muslim countries. And Saudi and Iran will make churches and they may stop churches converting to mosque.

    • johnb1945

      I disagree with not studying Islam.

      How you study it is key.

      My wife and her siblings were brought up in Islam. They recited the Qur’an in Arabic and didn’t understand it. Their understanding of Islam came mainly from their parents, other Muslims and the Mosque, who fed them a sanitised version.

      When they were older, they accessed the Qur’an, Sira and Hadith in English.

      This caused them to reject Islam.

      • cartimandua

        Out of 1.4 billion Muslims in the world 700,000 are illiterate. Rote learning in a foreign language doesn’t help literacy.

        • Did you mean 700,000,000? I’d be VERY surprised it it was seven hundred thousand that are illiterate.

          • johnb1945

            Maybe 50%.

            This is conceivable as most Muslim countries are 3rd world, although seems a little high.

        • johnb1945

          That could be true, but the post I responded to proposed things which we could only implement here in the UK (such as banning the study of Islam) where almost all Muslims are literate.

      • asdf

        I also studied but I know the dangerous point what is it is against humanity. If you believe humanity and religion then xtin is best religion only islam and humanity then jud

  • James Lawrence

    I’m not sure why people really care whether such people can leave the country. Clearly it’s an issue that terrorists can enter our country but when people willingly want to leave. Good luck to them I say and call in another drone strike

    • Hayekian

      The problem is that the bleeding hearts of this world will use human rights legislation to get them back in when they have finished their training in Syria and fancy doing a bit of home grown terrorism.

  • evad666

    Was al-Muhajiroun kept alive under Labour to provide income for the Human Rights Lawyers?

  • cartimandua

    Tell that stupid woman on the sofa to dump the hijab. Gender apartheid damages health and brains. It is fundamental and concrete. Faith is in your heart not your head. It is Islams concrete intrusion into public life which should be refused.
    And moving exams for Ramadan????? NO ONE should fast and dehydrate for 20 out of 24 hours for a month let alone young people.
    How utterly stupid. I imagine Mo thought it up to keep people weak and placid.

    • Cyril Sneer

      As I understand it children are exempt from Ramadan anyway – seems to be standard liberal bending over backwards for Islam whilst not really understanding what muzzies do.

      While for over 15 years white children in Rotherham and many other places received no such concern from the authorities.

      • Too true. It is standard tradition that children, the sick, the aged and soldiers are exempt from the discipline of fasting during Ramadan. Even if it wasn’t, the act of fasting is a personal choice and anyone doing so is ENTIRELY responsible for any side effect of their personal conduct. Furthermore, even in these dreadful days, Muslim children make up a small minority of children in British schools inspite of their parents procreating at third world levels. WE DO NOT NEED TO KEEP Islamifying our country and must not do so. Islam is NOT the religion of peace; it is an absolute curse and its adherents fill the news with foul, barbaric outrages, day after day after day. It is a pariah among religions, but still the liberal elite fill the airwaves and the column inches of newspapers sanitising the brutal barbarism of its followers, always claiming that whatever half dozen murderous outrages happened that day at the hands of its followers, are anything to do with Islam itself. Perhaps they have not read the Quran, or looked at how the more influential of its ‘scholars’ interpret those verses in the buoyant Salafist, Wahhabi tradition. Belief in Islam should be regarded like belief in the Mafia. It’s results are far worse.

      • cartimandua

        And yet we permit the child abuse of “fasting ” for Ramadan to be perpetrated on young teenage children attending our schools.

      • MrKaplan

        What is Islam’s definition of a child though? They marry their daughters off at 8 years old. Gotta take important multi-cultural differences in to consideration, you know.

    • James Lovelace

      By the time Mohammed told women to cover up, he’d raped, taken slaves and committed genocide.

      The hijab and burka are uniforms which signify support for the abominable crimes of Mohammed. Even Hitler didn’t do what Mohammed did — personally behead 800 jews, including children who had even a single pubic hair.

      • Liberanos

        I’ve used the phrase ‘The uniform of subjugation’ in relation to gender equality and it has been removed. I haven’t the faintest idea why, unless reading through a burka impedes moderator perception.

        • itbeso

          “The uniform of subjugation”. Badge of misogyny.

  • Chris Hobson

    Admire your bravery Mr Murray a true British patriot.

  • inmate714

    Still laughing at “Islam For Dummies”. The classy Dame has it right – too much testosterone, not enough IQ, combined with imagined grievance makes these kids feel like comic book heroes with a cause worth dying for. The end is mathematical – they’ll run out of human bombs before we run out of drones.

  • Cyril Sneer

    I’ve never heard of a ‘British Islamic extremist’, maybe that’s because they’re not British.

    • Marvin

      Pigs born in stables and all that. It is not humanly possible to be a Moslem and British, it is just a perception for benefits or not to be terrified by these barbarians.

  • mickey667

    Its all about MEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

  • James Lovelace

    Douglas, the very idea that you were responsible for this implies that muslims have no moral agency. This man chose to learn about islam and the genocide committed by Mohammed. And still he converted to islam. He chose to become a member of the oldest fascist party in history.

  • The sight of that smug wretch Anjem Choudary grinning above a banner advocating Sharia for the UK is an absolute affront to me. We have a spineless political elite who tolerate seditious traitors like him, not only allowing him to walk about our cities, perverting minds to his poisonous creed, but drawing benefits for himself and his family from the public purse. What has become of this nation? Earlier generations of British people would have put this man in the deepest dungeon along with all of his traitorous wretched followers. Instead, he walks the streets waving banners advocating the end of our political system and culture, grinning, and we tolerate it. How many murderous extremists are now associated with his group and his direct influence? I’ve lost count of them.

    • William Brown

      Earlier generations of British people would have ‘seen him off’ themselves and any sense of illegality would have been quietly forgotten about. These days, Choudary can walk free, spread his poison, recruit others and anyone who might dare to even verbally challenge him would be frog marched up the court steps and prosecuted for religious hatred.

    • Marvin

      Apparently a few months ago he wanted the passports of him and his family which are being held by the Home Office, so he could take them to live in a Sharia country, (Syria), but they refused. I wonder why he didn’t scream for his human rights then.

    • Quest for Liberty

      Indeed, political correctness (along with cultural Marxism is the great danger to western civilization. Without it, people wouldn’t tolerate this nonsense.

  • Joe Long

    It’s all very well saying that they should just leave and go to Syria – this thing is a product of the British state’s toxic putrid, pandering multi-culturalism/non-selective mass immigration, and there are thousands, maybe many thousands, of the same ilk.

    The head of the FSA has said that some of the worst atrocities carried out in his country are committed by “Britons”, committed against innocent people who have done us no harm and we with whom we have no quarrel. This is shocking.

    For a start the fiction that Rumaysah and his friends are Britons should be peremptorily dropped. These people are in fact enemy aliens – the State has a responsibility to make amends, and this shouldn’t amount to just letting them go off and murder Syrians or sell Yazidis in their vile slave markets.

    Nor obviously should they be able to wander around our country without let or hindrance. Enemy aliens should be interned, preferably on a very remote island – it’s been done before; all that’s lacking is the will to sweep away footling lefty opposition – but they are traitors anyway

  • Snag

    We try desperately to stop people like this leaving the country to join ISIS, then when they get there we try desperately to kill them. Surely it would be cheaper and more efficient to kill them here?

    • Marvin

      These donkeys who run our country would rather have our Keystone Cops chasing them around Turkey to bring them back.
      Ever known so many ignorant fools get so high in life?

    • Brian Jones

      It is almost much more difficult to identify them over here , much better to leave the exit door open so they can identify themselves and be treated as all vermin should be.

  • Liberanos

    I’m at a loss to understand why respect is demanded for an obscene mediaeval superstition, which endorses, often with physical violence, misogyny, anti-semitism, bigotry and homophobia. Surely, the correct response is either pity for those trapped within it, or contempt.

    • Quest for Liberty

      I think that both are due.

  • Joe Long

    Meanwhile more of Mad Merkel’s lies unravel

    “An experienced police officer has revealed that 14 of the 15 culprits arrested so far who were involved in the mass sexual molestation of women in Cologne on New Years Eve were newly arrived Syrian migrants.

    In an interview with Express.de, the officer reveals that 15 men were arrested, of whom 14 were from Syria and one was from Afghanistan. The men had arrived in Germany within the last few days or weeks, according to the officer.”


    • LittleRedRidingHood

      Its always the same. Whats the first thing you think about when you’ve fled your country “in fear of your life” ?
      That’s right, a bit of gang rape and sexual deviancy.

  • Murti Bing

    Hopefully 2016 will be the year the world finally wakes up to the dangers of tolerating this perverted filth. If our leaders continue to ignore it, then everyone will suffer.

    Here’s a recipe for a bright future: No islam. No sharia. No terror. No fear!

    • Liberanos

      No chance.

  • Tim Gilling

    Interesting what the woman in the headscarf said about Islamic novice, the crew with their Koran for Beginners, etc. Abu Rumaysah is also a convert. The theory that this isn’t about Islam but all about young men who, in other times, might have been attracted to the SS is appealing.

    • andyrwebman

      Could be some truth in it – but that still puts Islam in the place of being a philosophy which will appeal to that sort.

  • JSC

    I can’t be the only one thinking that if Douglas’ taunt did ‘push’ him to ISIS then perhaps we should issue some more taunts to Rumaysah’s other associates and hopefully they will all up sticks and leave for Syria where we can drop bombs on them legally and with a clear conscience.

  • beelzebub

    “..and it seems to me that neither our domestic government nor our societal defences are remotely up to the task of dealing with such people. We can only really address the matter abroad.”

    A very good point. And a very sad one.

  • beelzebub

    I think you can congratulate yourself Douglas, you may well have had a hand in pushing him to go and join isis. He’s probably bricking it, knowing his days are numbered and wondering to himself whether he really wanted to go this far. No wonder he’s lost weight. I’m grateful that he is now in a zone where he can be dealt with appropriately, instead of in the UK where he would have continued to be appeased and rewarded.

    • LittleRedRidingHood

      Probably at the hands of a Russian bomb rather than one of ours.

  • Liberanos

    Wonderful news that these violent primitives are finding ways to leave our shores. But they are simply a little more devout and courageous than the huge numbers of others of their kind staying put. We all know the ones. The thousands who marched, all across the country, demanding the death of Salman Rushdie.

    • Maureen Fisher

      And the ones we’ve let in to r@pe German women. The last time there was mass r@pe of German women like this was perpetrated by Russian troops.

      • Peter Simple

        True. This time it was done by Islamic troops.

  • Marvin

    You have got rid of one sub human mutant for us Douglas, now that you are so good at it, can you please rid us of Corbyn, Livingstone, Galloway, O’Connell, Owen Jones and O’Brian from LBC radio. That will go a long way to make Britain head in the right direction.

  • GoJebus

    A Muslim first, second and last is not a Muslim we want in this country. It therefore seems sensible to help facilitate these individual’s exit from the country. However, we don’t want them back, and to ensure that they can’t come back we would need to rescind their nationality, which would put us in contravention of Articles 13(2) and 15 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, and Articles 7/8 of the Convention on the Reduction of Statelessness. How do we get around that if they are also not able to be charged with High Treason (adhering to the enemy) and jailed for life?

    • LittleRedRidingHood

      And what exactly would happen if those articles of the UDHR were contravened? Probably nothing more than a stampede by other sovereign nations to do the same.

      Circumstances change. we’re not allowed to imprison them, or deport them. If the convention is not fit for purpose it could and should be repealed.

      Let them go…. Make sure they cannot come back even if they want to.

    • sussexoracle

      Many of them qualify for a Pakistani or Bangladeshi passport by virtue of having a parent or grandparent born in one of those countries. There is absolutely no reason at all why they cannot be flown to Baghram in Afghanistan and pushed out of the gate with a one way bus ticket to Islamabad,

    • Jethro Asquith

      As ISIS declare them selves to be a state then surely they can be classed as “ISISish”. We may not recognise the state but that is where they obviously want to belong.

  • sfin

    I have to admit, until I saw this clip, I hadn’t realised what a complete imbecile “Lord” Robert Winston was – far from the eminent scientist he is supposed to be, he came across as a teenage SU “activist”.

    Clearly, academic ‘genius’ isn’t everything.

    • Peter Simple

      Mentally, I always call him Lord Groucho, of Marx. I have to remind myself not to do so out loud.

  • Brian Jones

    I would think the border agency and police have their hands full trying to stop people coming into the country and I aren’t particularly worries about how many leave , at least once they are in Syria and Iran we know that they are enemies , have declared war on the UK and are legitimate targets.

  • Maureen Fisher

    I remember that interview very well, Douglas.

  • Maureen Fisher

    Keep up the “taunting” Douglas
    You can especially lay in to the so called feminists who are running scared over the s@xual assault business in Cologne.

    • victor67

      ” Did my taunt inspire Jihadi John”
      Yes Douglas the world does revolve round you and your narcissism knows no bounds.

      • anotherjoeblogs

        If a cartoon inspires thousands upon thousands to kill and cause mayhem, the Dougie Butterfly Effect looks plausible.

        • victor67

          It’s not really the point.
          It’s Murray sense of self importance and obvious fascination with himself that I find a bit nauseating.
          Sadly it is an all too common condition with both Politics and those who report on it.

    • AnaMorales

      Not all feminists believe in making excuses for Muslim rapists who think non-Muslim women are trash. There are plenty who are waking up. It’s just that the backlash from the far-left is so vicious it scares people. But enough is enough.

      I don’t make excuses for men who think women without hijabs (which doesn’t matter, they harass hijabis too) are asking for it. Women need to start fighting back, btw. The only thing these guys understand is force, so we need to stop being afraid.

      • hobspawn

         “Not all feminists believe in making excuses for Muslim rapists who think non-Muslim women are fair game. There are plenty who are waking up…  …Women need to start fighting back, btw.”

        Funniest post I’ve read in months, thank you, thank you. You conjure up a picture of crack squads of Birkenstock-wearing wimmin sociology lecturers, in night-vision goggles and trouser suits, parachuting into Bradford and Syria alike, to berate jihadists and persuade them the hard way to give up their totally outdated fascist dogma and embrace equality, positive bias rôle models, and identity culture. There’s a spoof movie in here somewhere. Emma Thompson can play the Slim Pickens part.

        • AnaMorales

          Well, that’s funny, because most of us, especially myself and everyone I know, wear business attire because it’s required in the legal, medical, etc. job where we work.

          And women in college dress like any other college student would. We all need things like pepper spray (sold out in Germany), stun guns, and tasers in order to knock a little sense into the male trash from Iraq, Syria, and Afghanistan that’s washed into Europe. Unfortunately, males learn through force and pain, and that is what I meant. If these pigs heard a few stories about men being sprayed and then beaten, they’d learn a lesson that wasn’t taught to them over in Raqqa.

          Btw, when I hear you whine about feminists, I know that it’s coming from a place of being rejected by women because that’s always what it is. You constructed a bogeyman in your mind of what “feminism” is because it’s your scapegoat for being a failed male, since you really have no experience or knowledge with the real world. In the US (where I am right now) males like you usually end up snapping psychotically and going on a shooting spree since they can’t get laid. Unfortunately, there’s not movie in that.

          I don’t care that you can’t get laid. Trolling in comments sections won’t change that and feminism is not the reason you are a loser, since you don’t even know what it is. Get a job and join a gym. Your life is a result of your choices, and you are to blame.

          And if you use “fascist” in this sense, you don’t know what it means either (not that’s has ever stopped ignorant/confident men). We can’t even get the government to accurately report on the rape of women, and you think feminists are taking your rights away? Wake up, sweetheart.

          • Alex

            You had to ruin it by showing your misandry.

          • AnaMorales

            What do misandry and Hogwarts have in common? They both don’t exist in the real world.

          • Alex

            Yes, of course you have to believe that. It gives you carte blanche to use feminism to be vile to men. You do know yong feminist women detest people like you.

          • AnaMorales

            Malespeak to English Translator:
            “Vile to men”=I can’t get laid
            “Young feminist women”=I speak for women now, since I’m a smart male.
            Back to your video games, dear!

          • Alex

            You seem quite prepared to speak for me, of course.

          • AnaMorales

            I’m translating, dear! Read my comment again. I understand males struggle with reading comprehension, but this is getting ridiculous.

          • Alex

            What really drives this hatred for men, Ana? Re-read the thread yourself and tell me who is the better advertisement for their gender.

          • hobspawn

            Well done, you’ve got the part.

            BTW I’m happily married with four children. My life is partly a result of my choices, and partly the result of God’s gifts and mercy. I am very blessed, and hopefully very low risk when it comes to psychotic shooting sprees.

            Lighten up, and have a very happy 2016!

          • AnaMorales

            Of course, darling.

          • andyrwebman

            How on earth do you deduce that hobspawn “can’t get laid” from the few lines of his original post?

            And quite honestly I don’t rate the chances of people like you being able to stand up to these types with just a few cans of pepper spray and a taser. You’d probably zap one or two but get the living turds knocked out of you by the rest of the gang.

            This sort of problem needs an organised police response. These contemptible types aren’t the weedy compliant men you’ve become used to in the west.

          • AnaMorales

            That’s why I think women need to establish a plan to travel in groups of 10-15, and just dole out a couple of beatings to some rapefugees while the rapefugees are out on the street either alone or in groups of two or three. The best plan would have one woman walk alone as bait, wait for males to start the harassment (which will 100% happen), and then have the rest of the group emerge from nearby. The stories would spread quickly, and males learn through violence or threats of violence, especially the ones from the Middle East. If just a few of these stories made the news, it would have a big effect.

            It is needed and I think it’ll work. There is no reason to wait for a big holiday like New Year’s when males travel in packs. This can be done every weekend. Pepper spray and batons can go very far, as long as women now where to hit–knees, stomach, head (while he’s on the ground). Women need to stop being nice and stop expecting help.

          • Gnonannon

            Important viewing on avoiding becoming a victim. 90% is awareness.: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oRVpyD0esQ

          • AnaMorales

            Men need to watch videos telling them not to attack women.

      • andyrwebman

        The trouble is with the feminist response is that it has been to act as if all men are the problem, as opposed to the immigrants.

        In a society of feminised men like Germany, this is ridiculous.

        • AnaMorales

          I don’t think it has as much to do with feminism as a historical philosophy, as in the fight for rights of women, as it has with far-left nonsense. Far-lefties sold out women awhile ago. Plus, everyone in Germany is expected to take abuse because of what Nazis did 70 years ago. Slovaks don’t expect to take abuse, and that’s why they’re not accepting rapefugees. And Slovakian women have the same level of rights as women in Germany really. They’re not far-leftist though.

  • Douglas, your work is not done … there are about 4 million more muslims many of us would like to see gone from the UK. Please “taunt” therm too. I am happy to send money for 1 way tickets.

    • Mongo

      99.9% of British Msulims are cowards and would never give up their cushy free benefits lifestyle in the UK to go and live in some war torn desert hellhole

      the 0.1% who do are even bigger cowards.

  • George

    Whoever Jihadi John the 2nd may be, very likely he will be annihilated sooner or later by the British or Americans (unless, of course, he decides to come back to welfare Britain as a repentant and takes a job with the BBC and an adviser to Jeremy Corbyn).

    But even if he is annihilated, we in Europe will be no safer. Islam has an infinite capacity to produce characters such as Abu Rumaysah, and we will no doubt see Jihadi John the 100th.

    The problem—and it’s a problem no mainstream politician will publicly admit—is that Islam is the source of al-Qaeda, of Isis and all the other Muslim extremist organisations. Radical jihad is an integral part of Islam. As proof of this, consider that there is no significant place on the planet with Muslim populations that is not in turmoil.

    Until fifty years ago, Europe was free of the problem. But now, after fifty years of Muslim immigration to western Europe, western Europe itself is in Muslim turmoil.

    This Muslim terrorism in Europe will continue, because there are no negotiable terms on the table. Radical Islam wants complete surrender to its demands for the implementation of sharia and there are enough Muslims now (and growing) in Europe to sustain Europe’s Muslim jihad.

    European governments pretend that the jihadists can be beaten and that Europe will return to those blissful days when the news was about something other than Islam.

    It’s not going to happen. Europe is now semi-Islam (look at the self-censorship over the Danish cartoons and other surrenders), and we will no more escape Islam’s troubles than Syria and Iraq ever will.

    • Bertie

      “European governments pretend that the jihadists can be beaten and that Europe will return to those blissful days when the news was about something other than Islam.”

      They can be beaten but it will take an equally bloody thirsty movement/regime to do so as the current political classes are spineless.

      Do you think the German people will sit idly by and take it? Suspect not.

      • George

        The only way not to have a Muslim problem is to to have no Muslims. Short of large-scale deportations to cleanse Europe of its Muslim population, there is no solution.

        As for the Germans, they are as indifferent to their traditional culture as we are to ours. They have just allowed over a million Muslims to come in and live off them.

        • andyrwebman

          I don’t think they’re all particularly happy about it. Trouble is, they’ve been made weak by the left.

          That is the problem we face in Europe – the enemy within (the left) is like a nagging voice of self doubt, making us weaker than we would otherwise be.

        • Gnonannon

          Germans of any know there is no final solution. One way or the other, the strategic dynamic of the amoral circumstaces of creation will unfold along it’s lines of force. It is what is too slow for the human mind to see that unfolds through faith.

        • Bertie

          “Short of large scale deportations, there is no solution.”

          Yes there is – it’s called “mass Internment” and “extermination”

          Once you start the former, the need for deportations will reduce as many take voluntary emirgation(same result as deportation), ergo no need for the latter.

          “As for the Germans, they are as indifferent to their traditional culture
          as we are to ours.”

          Au contraire, rubbish

          “They have just allowed over a million Muslims to
          come in and live off them.”

          Did they? Or was it their self indulgent political class that made that
          decision for them? Didn’t se a vote myself? Did you?

          Plenty of rioting over the subject – not in UK news of course. Evidence the German population didnt allow 1 million moslems to come live off them

      • Jackthesmilingblack

        Put them on some trains and send to some camps. Protective custody.

  • AnaMorales

    I wonder if Myriam Francois Cerrah (noted Muslim feminist who makes excuses for Muhammad’s rape of Aisha) is embarrassed she said this moron wouldn’t go to the caliphate.

    • E.I.Cronin

      She looks very concerned in the video. Myriam is worried that Abu’s jihad will distract Muslim men from the more urgent task of subjugating Britain to Sharia.

      • Well at least with that headscarf on she won’t need to worry about being sexually assaulted (sarcasm).

        • E.I.Cronin

          Exactly! I don’t even want to hear the twisted justifications and victim blaming from Myriam’s crowd.

    • Mongo

      I’ve seen an increasing number of white well-brought up British women apparently converting to Islam and donning the Hijab

      what is it about Islam that attracts them so much?

      • AnaMorales

        I believe it is low self-esteem, lack of intelligence, bad childhoods, or the need for an identity. Sometimes, a combination of all four. Islam, I believe, is for the most weak-minded because it lays out everything for you and you don’t have to think about anything difficult–your clothes, what you do every moment of everyday, what you can eat/drink, how to even wash yourself, etc.

        In the cases of idiots like Lauren Booth or Yvonne Ridley, it’s attention because the career is flagging. Please read Julie Burchill’s article on Booth, it’s 100% accurate.
        However, if you look into the statistics, the majority of female converts also leave within a few years, especially if it was for marriage, because the marriages frequently fail. Many times, these women don’t even read the Koran or study the Hadith before they join, so they don’t know about the wife-beating, polygamy, etc.
        Anyway, they can thank their lucky stars they don’t live in Islamic countries. They make these decisions because we live under secular laws and women can call the police if their husbands beat them.
        None of them actually live in Islamic countries where the government and majority of the population supposedly holds the same views. When I point that out to them (I’ve dealt with many), the defensiveness is off the charts.

        • Mongo

          good points. Women with low self esteem or going through some kind of crisis may take solace in a Muslim man who appears to be strong and can take care of her.

          she then finds out the hard way just what ‘submission’ entails.

      • chizwoz

        Sam Harris addressed that question at one point and speculated that it’s a desire to escape all of the sexual norms of western society and just have them prescribed for you by a rigid set of rules. That really does suit some people. True independence scares some.

      • JohnJ

        Over the next few years you can watch the German feminists convert and marry the newly arrived migrants. The modern German male is like a girl. Perhaps we will see what they are made of in the coming weeks as a response to their women being plundered by the Muslim hordes.

        • amartya

          love jihad

      • andyrwebman

        Maybe fall in love with an Asian man to prove how progressive and liberal they are – and then they’re willing to give up all of the things they treasured growing up for the sake of that man.

        Or they’re attracted to the idea of not showing off their body to men – so much that they give up the freedoms their grandmothers fought hard for.

      • itbeso

        It doesn’t. They have no choice if they wish to marry or pretend to marry a Muslim. Short sighted idiots every one.

    • George

      I suspect it is a feminist shot at making British men jealous.

      Also, women love dressing up, they love new clothes etc. The Muslim female dress is just something different to wear.

  • E.I.Cronin

    If the government set up a public donation account for one-way airfares plus complimentary 3 nights accommodation in 0.05 star hotels in Iraq and Syria for devout Muslims there would be 50 million in it by sundown.

    Onya Douggie!! Be careful though.

    btw does Myriam get paid for all these token western spokesbaghead appearances..??

  • Nick

    When I look at the above picture of Choudrey and co holding the sharia for the UK sign,I think to myself ‘how could it come to this?’ ‘How could it come to this in the UK?’

    Shame on the incumbent government and previous ones.

    All the MPs of the LibLabCon should hold their heads down in shame.

  • sussexoracle

    On a slightly lighter note, I watched a person dressed in full burka with tiny peep holes loading three children into a car and driving off. I queried this with two local plod and asked how that could be legal when visibility was so restricted? They shrugged it off.

    Later I mentioned all this to my wife who simply replied,’That’s probably why they don’t allow women to drive in Saudi Arabia.’

    • chizwoz

      Lol, awesome wife.

  • Thaddeus lovelock

    The thing is this type of intractable ultra hard line Islamist ideology has been metastasizing through out the UK Muslim community for a long time now. Hiding behind claims of Islamophobia.

  • WTF

    Fixing ISIS in the ME is not a difficult task, the real problem is dealing
    with out of control Muslim criminal elements born in the west or allowed
    in as fake refugees, how do you solve that problem.

    Option 1/ Do as the liberal apologists and deniers claim and ‘talk to
    them’ trying to explain our western culture. Result – We’ve tried this
    for at least 20+ years but it hasn’t worked as their Islamic culture is
    so embedded in their psyche, its like trying to mix oil and water.

    Option 2/ Accept that many Muslims will never integrate and give them
    areas where they can live under their own laws. Result – Although no
    one will admit it, we’re already doing this across the west and its
    having no effect on the criminal and Jihadist elements. They just use
    their ‘no go’ areas as a safe haven but leave for periods to commit
    terrorism, go on a rape spree or a club Jihadi trip to Syria.

    Option 3/ Build walls around these no go areas to contain the crimes and
    terrorism. Problem – Not acceptable as the liberal elite would never
    allow it and in any case the elite aren’t affected by the rapes,
    be-headings and terrorism that affect normal people and they don’t
    consider its a problem. Remember, liberal ideology trumps our objection
    to Islamic inspired criminal acts.

    Option 4/ Deportation / Imprisonment for offenders. Problem –
    Deportation of non UK criminals / jihadists is technically possible but
    Human Rights courts would frustrate any attempts at deportation.
    Imprisonment in ultra high security prisons for UK citizens involved in
    these activities ? possible but in the current liberal climate would be
    politically unacceptable.

    Option 5/ Apply Saudi style penalties for criminal / terrorist acts
    carried out by Muslims. Problem – A very neat and final solution in most cases that would
    certainly work by using the Sharia laws they wish for, but it wouldn’t
    be allowed under human rights laws.

    Personally, I can’t see any of these options being allowed nor any other
    viable solution being offered or acceptable to the left. The only
    likely outcome is it gets so bad that vigilante groups say enough is
    enough, take matters into their own hands and after many deaths, martial
    law is declared.

    • Personally I think the biggest factor is the welfare system. Without benefits they would be forced to work and integration would, very slowly, probably over generations, start to happen. As you say the other options haven’t worked and are not likely to. Persuading the left that limiting benefits is very necessary is going to be very difficult.

      The other really important thing is not to limit free speech. As long as vocal criticism of Islam goes on there is still a hope that some percentage of Muslims will leave the religion and the jihadis will start to see they are losing. Right now the government is heading in the opposite direction, which is disastrous.

      • WTF

        I would agree that the welfare system is certainly the main draw as without benefits they probably wouldn’t consider coming. In hot humid areas like Florida, if you leave food out or don’t wipe the surfaces down enough, soon one cockroach appears and then many more. Remove the enticement of free food and shelter and the problem of a cockroach infestation doesn’t arise and the odd one or two can be removed quite easily.

        It should be obvious to most why Germany & Sweden are the ‘sweet spots’ for economic immigrants (followed by the UK) due purely to the generous welfare hand outs. They don’t want to stay in a nice warm climate like Greece they want the frozen north where the benefits are. This isn’t a refugee crisis that is happening to Europe its an alien cultural invasion where too many migrants are literally raping and pillaging their host countries.

        The hate speech laws that the UK passed have been used politically to suppress free speech by cherry picking who they prosecute. Almost no Muslim hate mongers have ever been charged with a hate crime whilst many far right protesters have. Whilst the CPS refuses to have a level playing field on who they charge or not, these anti-hate laws should be repealed for good.

        • Well speaking of cockroaches since the Koran says that the disbelievers are the vilest of animals, that implies that us non-Muslims are cockroaches. That’s grossly offensive, I’m offended by that. Not enough to want a stupid law to protect me from such sentiments however.

    • SunnyD

      perhaps marital law should be declared instead?

      • BritishPatriot

        Or martial law, even?

        • SunnyD

          same difference?

          • BritishPatriot

            Not quite. It’s a fun typo when it happens!


            relating to marriage or the relations between a married couple.”she wanted to talk about their marital problems”

  • Blindsideflanker

    Too few people like Douglas Murry are prepared to challenge the ROP and its more extreme followers, as such I have come to believe the failure to defend our interests, more like tolerate and capitulate to these Islamofascists is creating the problem, we need to get in their faces and drive them back to the rock they climbed out from under.

    • hobspawn

      Yes indeed, but not “Islamofascists”, just ‘muslims’. Identify the enemy.

  • putin

    I have nothing but admiration and respect for you Mr Murry. Imagine what life is like for Abu Rumaysah now. He probably envisaged a nice cushy role in the “caliphate” bureaucracy. Possibly bullying women into dressing correctly or brushing sand from prayer mats. Never did he imagine that being British and a convert he’d have to prove himself by filling Jihadi John’s still smouldering shoes. He must have been made an offer he could not refuse. He now finds himself a useful idiot with a target on his back and nothing could be more deserved. It’s just a pity he will never feel the terror of his victims though we can only hope he lives in constant fear.

    • Davey

      We have the satisfaction of knowing that all he faces at this point is complete oblivion, and that right soon! He won’t even live to see his children grow up. The ultimate loser.

  • mahatmacoatmabag

    The biggest threat to our future comes from the fools on the left who wanted a multicultural Europe who have brought mass migration both legal & illegal to Europe.

    Every town, city & village throughout Western Europe is in danger of having women attacked on the streets by 3rd world migrants who are unwilling to adapt to Western Judaeo-Christian norms of civilised behaviour.

    Now we face the prospect of a reaction by vigilanties because the Police in places from Rotherham to Malmo to Paris to Brussels to Cologne are under orders from their political masters to give the migrants a free pass when they attack our women in the streets.

    Today its our women & underage girls, tomorrow it will be the Gays & the Jews they attack in the street because our politicians are in denial over the existence of the problem & refuse to deal firmly with those communities causing the trouble.

    That is why we must vote to leave the EU & regain control over the sovereignty of the UK & our economy before the troubles turn in a de facto war on our streets .

    • Ivan Ewan

      Hit the nail on the head.

  • SunnyD

    Maybe it’s because fewer women are holidaying in the likes of Egypt, Tunisia and Turkey that so many able-bodied men are “fleeing persecution” and “seeking refuge” in the West? That is, if the recent spate of reports on gropings, rapes and attempted assaults on women in France, Germany, Finland etc is anything to go by?

    • mahatmacoatmabag

      Could well be, sort of like a reversal of the old Arab proverb about Mohammed & the mountain

    • Andrew Cole

      I suspect most of these able bodied men are fleeing warzones in fear of being made to defend their countries. I suspect though that this country’s young men would not be as brave as their grandfathers and great grandfathers were.

      • SunnyD

        I fear you may be correct

      • mohdanga

        Why would they be? 50 years of multiculti indoctrination by schools and the media have made them think that the West is evil incarnate, responsible for all that is wrong with the world, while being told that foreign cultures, washing up on our shores, are so much superior to the racist, sexist, Islamophobic, misogynistic, white male privileged one that has made the West the most desirable place to live.

  • mahatmacoatmabag

    I just saw on Sky that the Israeli police have shot dead the Dizengoff St. terrorist in a Mosque in an Israeli Arab village, our police dare not even approach a Mosque let alone enter & shoot a terrorist being harboured there.

    • modernredeye

      Our ‘authorities’ would be negotiating his safe exit and then using water cannon on any subsequent protests by the host population – see Cologne.

  • Wolfgang Amadeus

    Yes, I cannot abide or understand this notion of not doing something lest it “create more terrorists”.

    The idea that a society or government, or even an individual, should avoid speaking their mind, or pursuing a logical or practical course of action for the majority, simply to avoid angering or offending a minority, is absurd.

    Most ironic is the idea that there are Muslims who would otherwise be moral, upstanding members of the community had the government not vowed to fight terrorism, or had so-and-so not publicly criticised the belief system that is islam.

    It seems utterly lost on froth-mouthed Leftists and other apologists for islam how condescending it is to Muslims that it would take so little to “create a terrorist”. In my book, anyone who could be tipped so easily into terrorism was an assh0le to begin with.

    • andyrwebman

      If it takes so little to create a terrorist from a given group of people, doesn’t that show up anyone who invites such people into their country as utter morons?

      The left should be apologising for their past stupidity, not compounding it.

  • Rupert Williams

    Good riddance to the loathsome barsteward.

    I suspect furthermore there is an unwritten, unspoken policy to let the feckers go where they can be disposed of summarily rather than retaining by force a posibly lethal 5th column here.

    I certainly hope so. If it were really sheer incompetence I would be worried.

  • deltamike67

    Soros is always saying ‘fighting terrorism creates it;, (a blame the victim scenario). I suppose he believes pulling weeds in his garden causes the weeds to grow as well.

    • mohdanga

      Soros must have missed 9/11…

    • Gnonannon

      But it does, does it not, increase photosynthetic space, nice, rich arable loam. What grows in the place of weeds is weeds if the gardener does not know that the seeding is separate from the hydroponics, the hydroponics from the harvest: Islamism follow Mithridates – he died old.

  • Maureen Fisher

    Well seeing as the website is slow on the main issue, please can I cut and paste this from the Guardian: “Liberals shouldn’t be afraid to ask hard questions.” “Young German women
    thankfully enjoy historically unprecedented economic and sexual freedom,
    with their expensive smartphones and their right to celebrate New
    Year’s Eve however they want. The same isn’t always true of young male
    migrants exchanging life under repressive regimes, where they may at
    least have enjoyed superiority over women, for scraping by at the bottom
    of Europe’s social and economic food chain” A rape apologist on the left in action…

    • ahmed

      Thats sickening. Who is that writer. ‘…where they may have at least enjoyed superiority over women’ is particularly abominable. The writer needs to be shamed.

      • cartimandua

        But its true. Islamist cultures take away individual freedoms and give men apparent power over women (and younger men) to compensate.

    • andyrwebman

      Cultural relativism at its worst.

      They condemn us for showing boobs on page 3, but act as apologists for cultures which keep women as second class citizens.

  • Kyles Flodda

    Jihadi’s on BBC – nothing more to say.

  • hippiepooter

    We can best deal with them abroad? In a sense yes. We can’t launch drone missiles at them within the UK. However, if we stop vying for the most morally imbecilic epoch in world history and round known jihadists up and send them to a British Guantánamo in South Georgia or somewhere, then we can deal with them better at home before they chop people’s heads off abroad. I fear though that the historically unprecedented moral imbecility of Britain and the West in general will have a somewhat different outcome.

  • Rowland Nelken

    What I found ridiculous was the attitude of most of the panellists on the vid. They clearly have no conception of the mindset of a Jihadi terrorist, or indeed anyone under the influence of cult mind control. In their fantasy world, so long as folk have ‘opportunities’, ‘a place in society’, ‘education’ ‘prospects’ ‘careers’, ‘security’ ‘a home’ , holidays et al. they will not be tempted by terrorist groups.

    Although I have not been a terrorist, I was, as a child, a victim of cult mind control. I was a Jehovah’s Witness. SUre, those guys don’t do Jihad, beheadings and the rest. Their mega violence is delegated to their Jehovah monster, who is set to execute all you non Jehovah’s Witnesses at some imminent Armageddon for the capital crime of ……not being Jehovah’s Witnesses.

    Many of my fellow JWs, just like so many JIhadis, with their degrees, careers and rich parents, had lives stuffed full of all these conventional ‘opportunities’, the lack of which is supposed, by those silly sods on the panel, to make one immune to cult leaders who promise heaven on earth in exchange for absolute obedience and commitment.

    Most Christians and Jews, like the Muslims, saddled with some dodgy old ‘holy writings’ have learned either to ignore them, follow merely a few selected nice bits, or, if professionally engaged, explain the horrors away. The Bible God, for example, was OK with slavery. Many anti slavery campaigners, like Wilberforce and Harriet Beecher-Stowe, were, ironically, dedicated Christians. The Bible God was a racist (watch out Amalekites and Canaanites!). Two most notable, and succesful, anti racist campaigners of the last century were Archbishop Tutu and the Rev. Martin Luther King.

    The Koran and Hadiths, alas, in their muddled and internally contradictory way, provide a ready made divinely issued guide for Jihadis, as well as the barbarities of legit. Islamic States like Saudi Arabia and Sudan.

    Sure, some panellists in the vid. above advanced the cause of education. Clearly that is what is needed. Kids have long been warned about accepting lifts from strangers. They need also to be made aware of the dangers of cult mind control. Whatever else education might be about, it cannot be that style of ‘education’ which is financed globally by the Saudis, of Madrasahs, which are often forcing houses for tomorrow’s Jihadis. The provenance of the Koran and Hadiths as much as their meaning needs to be widely understood. So long as they are regarded as inerrant and God issued, Islamic fundies are bound to continue to appear. And that is not just my opinion. Youseef Choueiri, an Islamic expert, made that clear in his book on Islamic fundamentalism.

    • Rowland Nelken

      That should have read; ‘lack of which (opportunities etc.) make one prey to cult leaders’

    • andyrwebman

      You’ve hit the nail right on the head. I’m deeply fed up with the apologists and their view that “it’s all down to opportunities”.

      They’re basically advocating the most crassly materialistic view possible – that being poor in the UK (which is nothing like being poor in the Third World) makes you decide to kill people en masse and rape women captives.

      No expectations are proffered that people should have the strength to not become horribly evil despite being on the dole for a few years.

      It’s even happened in Sweden – despite their generous social system which welcomed and supported refugees and immigrations, they still acted like the guilty party when these same ungrateful immigrants rioted in Stockholm.

      • Rowland Nelken

        And such drivel as spouted by some on the panel, ignores, totally, the fact that many terrorists have wealthy and supportive families, potentially rewarding careers and as well as comfortable homes.

    • mohdanga

      “In their fantasy world, so long as folk have ‘opportunities’, ‘a place in society’, ‘education’ ‘prospects’ ‘careers’, ‘security’ ‘a home’ , holidays et al. they will not be tempted by terrorist groups.” All of what you describe are earned, but Muslims are used to taking and not creating so when they can’t get what they want, they get violent.

      • Rowland Nelken

        I would not make such a generalisation. My point was that many terrorists already have these goodies in spades. The 9/11 bombers were nearly all from wealthy families and had professional backgrounds. Sure, being a ‘have not’ is no way an excuse for being a murderer, but cult mind control, as exerted by too many Islamic preachers, can have a foul and destructive effect on the materially secure and comfortable. The panellists in the vid. seemed utterly oblivious of these facts.

  • whorya

    Posting this for all British posters on this site it needs to be read.

    This following statement is from the leader of the Pakistani Muslims (Islamists) Just before the British government SPLIT India up to create Pakistan. Read it carefully, especially if you are one of our lefty, pro integration apologists. “Allama Iqbal” defined the Muslims of India as a nation and suggested that there could be no possibility of peace in the country unless and until they were recognized as a nation and under a federal system the Muslim majority units were given the same privileges which were to be given to the Hindu majority units. It was the only way in which both the Muslims and the Hindus could prosper in accordance with their respective cultural values. In his speech, he emphasized that unlike Christianity, Islam came with “legal concepts” with “civic significance,” with its “religious ideals” considered as inseparable from social order: “therefore, the construction of a policy on national lines, if it means a displacement of the Islamic principle of solidarity, is simply unthinkable to a Muslim.”[2]

    Now this is what our government at that time “Recognized” and divided a country(Religions) As “Incompatible” and had to “Divide a nation” to keep the peace. Because ISLAM Will NOT INTERGRATE.

    Our government have. Either never read our history concerning Islam. Or as it seems to everyone who posts here, completely ignores “Proven” history of Islam and its principles of its self.

    Our governments are forcing on us. What they know to be an unworkable, unwanting/unneeded Religion that in the statement above proves they have no intention of integrating. Each and every country they are now residing in. Is in the same position India was, before being split in two by ISLAM.



    kamal3 days ago

    • TRAV1S

      1947, Pakistan another Labour success story.

    • Tom M

      Plenty more where that came from. Here’s Iqbal’s sometime boss on the same subject:

      Mohammed Ali Jinnah head of Muslim League India 1943
      explaining why he wanted to create a separate country for Muslims (that became Pakistan):

      “We are different beings. There is nothing in life
      which links us together. Our names, our clothes, our foods – they are all different;
      our economic life, our educational ideas, our treatment of women, our attitude
      to animals…….. We challenge each other at every point of the compass.”

  • BritishPatriot

    I see nothing wrong with allowing wannabe Islamists to run off and join ISIS…. just so long as we never allow them to return to the UK.

    • trobrianders

      You’re dreaming if you think that’s going to happen

      • BritishPatriot

        Well, we could brand them or something before we let them leave.

  • modernredeye

    “Try to mix oil and vinegar. Shake the bottle. In a moment they will separate again. Arabs are Arabs and French are French.”

    De Gaulle 1959.

  • trobrianders

    Europe will rediscover reason and ruthlessness, upon which its prior success was based, when it drops its leftist intellect and relies on instinct instead.

  • stuartMilan

    I have no idea, Douglas. But I guess there’s no harm in you having another go…

  • Maureen Fisher

    I’m sure Douglas saw the Channel 4 documentary last night where it was revealed that this individual was recruited by Abu Bakri whom various “human rights” lawyers and judges were determined to keep in our midst until he voluntarily cleared off to Lebanon where he’s currently in jail.